Commanding

[Tails_Kitsune]

I do agree that fighting and commanding is possible. I've seen a few people do if quite effectively, but, as Dose said, sat-tracks can be very effective at spotting out those annoying enemies, and giving your squads very helpful information on enemy movement, easy captures, and where a mass of enemies are advancing to.

If you're fighting and commanding, chances are, there will be some weakness in both. If you're trying to balance both, you're more likely to mis-place important supply drops and UAVs. The best commanders are those who can tell what the enemies are up to, relay that info, and find a good counter.

Fighting and commanding effectively is possible, but I believe if you find a safe spot in the titan, or near a silo, and spend a vast majority of your time in the command screen, you'll be an even more effective commander.

[CarbonFire]

I think fighting and commanding can be complimentary, but only in the right hands. And even then, I have serious doubts that a flying commander can be an effective one (or AS effective as one on the ground). A good commander will:

• Talk on VoIP with squad leaders, coordinating attacks and holding silos/flags
• Drop frequent UAV's and spot loner infantry vehicles using Sat Scan ALL ROUND, not just when its requested. Remember, only the commander has an all seeing eye of the battlefield, so he's the one in the position that can anticipate where a UAV or timely spot will do the most good, not the SL on the ground.
• Make sure the supply boxes come early and often. This one is more of the responsibility of SL than anything else, but a GOOD commander can anticipate when a supply crate could turn the tide of a silo defense/offense (which in-turn can change the flow of the game)
• EMP strike when necessary, but without Orbital in Titan mode, EMP is almost useless (can rarely be used to help swing a battle to your teams side though)
• Help bolster Titan Offense/Defense by spotting out and eliminating Titan assaulters, and letting the whole team know when the titan defense needs more people, when the silos need more people, and when is a good time to attack the enemy Titan.

I think a good commander can do all these things and stay engaged on the ground....usually defending Titan or a silo. I seriously question whether a good commander can do it while in the air. Sure, you can answer requests well enough, but you're wasting the rest of your talents while doing it. While flying, you have a very clear view of the battlefield, but its a macro view. You aren't going to see the sneaky guy using cloak to run up and jack a walker. You aren't going to always catch that lone jeep zipping around your line for a back flag, especially not when you're engaged in a dogfight or trying to hunt down a SAAW user.

Here's the REAL question. WHY BE COMMANDER IF YOU ARE GOING TO FLY? Unless absolutely no one else is filling the role for game after game, then it just seems like someone doing it to get that extra bonus X2 award for commander points. Because if the ultimate goal is to win, then you certainly can accomplish that by flying WITHOUT having to be commander. In other words, the only reason to fly AND be commander is because you're looking for extra points. And if it's not for points, ask yourself this question: Would I fly and be commander if I was guaranteed never to get any bonus points? What would be the motivation then?

[Tanari]

I believe everyone has made some very nice points, so let me attempt to clear up a few things. First commanders can still fight and drop support for people. Same with flying and dropping support it takes about 2-3 seconds to tab--right click----hit accept button----tab out. Also i'm only talking about commanding in Titan mode, conquest is a different story and i've yet to play more then a dozen rounds of conquest. Also we aren't talking about be 100% effective as commander, we're talking about the job of a commander. By all means I don't plan on being the best commander and there will be very few people up to that task, simple put because everyone has different needs. Maybe a commander for drives a tank won't fulfill someones needs to that person will say commander has to sit on the titan. And as i've been tryin to state not everyone will be happy with a commanders performance, BUT what is allowed? And remember each of you has a different idea of what a GOOD commander is.

So far what i'm seeing is as long as the commander meets the needs of the few people who require his "special" talents then he can do whatever it takes to win.

[Tanari]

BTW you can't tell someone they can't do something unless there is a RULE that says otherwise especially on a postion that is suppose to be the "Leader". That would be like telling your boss he can't take the day off.

[Tanari]

Just eating dinner and playing, I'm noticing that the commander is fighting on the ground, isn't dropping supplies,or any other support fuction, and yet not 1 person is yelling,bitzing, or in any other way saying this commander sucks, not to mention we gonna lose without dropping enemy sheild. So this is being allowed, with 2 admins on currently. This leads me to believe a commander can do whatever he wants, so the next time someone starts talking trash about me commanding I guess I can ignore, until theres a rule in place which governors this realm of game play.

[foxtrot87]

Tanari's Tactics as commander are ... without a doubt most excellent. I can honestly say every round that he is commander we have a 99% percent chance of winning. Because we do something to finish off the other team that no one usually expects.
Most commanders do their thing as you would expect but that doesnt make up for the lack of orders squads follow. Tanari took this into account and lets them do their own thing but plays the eyes in the skies roll very well. Im not sure if my thoughts are on topic but im trying to make the point that nearly all commanders dont do what they are suppose to do... and that is WIN.

Another person thats really good at commanding is StillTrooper.

[obscurehero]

Honestly, do you have something you're worried about. Did somone criticize your style of gameplay at some point to put you on the defensive, or do you just feel the need to be defensive?

Really, I'm curious.

To address your points. You get the position by clicking a button and placing your bets that you've played the dumb game longer than the next guy. Who knows, he could be the next einstein of bf2142 warfare (whatever that is)... but you might beat him out because you play more. Now, does your "commander" position mean anything more than the other players give you? Not really. Now, let me get this right. You're comparing a hierarchial system of employment with bf2142? Right...

Your second point. Forgive my sarcasm, but this is pure genius... people
should run countries this way. So, because your neighbor shoplifts and gets away with it, by golly you should too. What? Are you serious? You're trying to say that you'll do the wrong thing until someone tells you not to? Are you 6?

Ok... I'm sorry. That kind of attitude really grinds my gears.

Here's how cain's lair works. We all try to work as a community. Sharing, caring, working together, and fragging (sounded all cuddly until I got to that last part). When we play, we work together... help each other out. Not because someone told us to, but because thats the quality thats here.

You need to do be a good teammate. Not a great player. If you can to both, excellent! However, lets focus on the first one before we make our way to the second one. A lot of people shared a lot of wisdom on this thread. Lets listen to them eh?

[Tanari]

Actually yeah I am defensive about this subject. I'm trying to get a rule in place, or i'd like to be left alone. Theres a couple CLR I won't name names that will harass the hell out of you if they think you're commanding incorrectly. I don't believe they are admins, but they wear the CLR tag which i've stated I respect. There are other CLR's that have an open mind and notice that normally when I command I win, these CLR's don't tell me not to do something. I'm not attempting to promote the lone wolf style of play, all I want is the freedom to do what I want without someone telling me how I must play. If this freedom gets taken away in the form of a rule then so be it, but if theres no rule, RESPECT HOW OTHERS WISH TO PLAY.

[obscurehero]

I see. Here the awful conundrum rears its ugly head. On one side we have Tanari who wants to play the way he wants to... on the other side we have the "other" CLR's who wish to see different behavior from a commander. Now, who's right???

Your answer is simple actually. You can't say you deserve freedom of action and then bar their freedom from expression. It doesn't make sense. What you can do is realize that there's a lot more to playing in a community then winning. I'm not saying your opponents are right, but what i am saying is that they have a problem with your commanding style (from what I gather). Now you can do one of two things. Ignore them and continue to do what you're doing, or you can consider that you might be wrong. Sometimes, the best move isn't always the case.

In this case, you might be a better commander not alienating friends just so you can win. Also, you shouldnt' need a rule to tell you to play nice with other CLR's. Just saying...

[RobotBanana]

I don't think I've seen you command, so I'll just give my general thoughts on the topic.

As has already been said, the commander has a lot of extra abilities that no one else does. Therefore, he should be putting his energy toward using those abilities to better the rest of the team. That means constant Sat Tracks, supply drops, etc. If you want to run into the front lines, you can do so without taking the one and only commander position for your team.

That said, it's also different for each person in each scenario. I've seen commanders who can spew out a constant flow of commander tasks while wiping the battlefield clean of all enemies. Others can barely manage to do their jobs just sitting on the titan deck. Being a commander involves more than just accepting squad leader's requests. You should actively be commanding. In my experience, squads usually don't request much, regardless of how much they really need it.

If you can find a safe spot with a couple of other team mates (perhaps a tower that isn't very popular with the enemy) where you can kill, but you're still safe to pull up the command screen for a minute or two at a time, perfect. Drop a supply box beside you and fire away. But if the only boxes you drop land next to you, you're taking away from the rest of your team.

If the commander is sitting in the titan commanding and the team isn't getting anywhere (one of those teams that can't hold a silo for longer than 10 seconds), they should probably get in a transport and try to help them out. If the team's humming along just fine, the commander should probably fall back and focus on commanding.

As far as the moral issues of ordering go, I don't think I agree with you. It's a game. Players can chose to follow their commander's orders, or they can run around like a headless walker (no? nothing?... well, I tried ). The way I see it, orders can be a good thing. Providing that the squads actually work together, having a commander who coordinates attack and defend orders means your team is going to win. I don't feel hostile toward commanders for giving orders. I WANT them to give them.

Although I don't believe there are any server rules about how to command, most commanders just stay in the titan anyway.

Whether or not I agree with you, no one should insult you based on how well they think you play the game. To each their own.

If you feel you're doing a good job and your team is doing well, I want you as my commander. On the other hand, If people are generally displeased, maybe it's time to revise your strategy. Find the point where combat starts taking priority over commanding, and take a step back.

[Tanari]

Actually theres been 2 CLR's who have had problems with my command style. I was actually threatened by one of those. The other CLR's i've played with have little to no problems regarding my command style. To make this into a 1 person versus a majority opinion isn't correct. And as I've stated before i'm all about freedoms, but when peoples freedom's take away from others there is a problem, which needs a solution. I see commander's who don't do anything the entire time they play, and no one says nothing. But the moment someone see's a commander actually fighting the above couple CLR"s i've mentioned throw warnings,threats, and are otherwise incapable of comprehending that there is no rule saying a commander can't do whatever they are doing. We all know the rule of NO titan movement, but how many people continued to move the titan even though it was a rule you weren't allowed to do it. Now we got a couple people making a stink about commanders not commanding, and its not even a rule they must command. It might be "common sense", but until theres a written rule that says what a commander is or isn't allowed to do then how can these couple CLR's warn,or threaten commanders who may or may not being doing their job....

I would like either a rule in place which says commander must stay on their titan, and it to be enforced the same as titan movement was. How its to be enforced i've no clue.

OR

I want it recognized that there is NO rule about commanding and that commanders are free to do what they want just like every other person in the game.

I really don't care about what should be, because everyone has a different idea of what should be. But If theres a stated rule, or decision which people can state to defend themselves then events like someone with a power trip can't attempt to bully others when they can just tell that bully that either this is the rule or this is the decision that was collectively thought up.

What was told to me (threatened) was this.

If you don't stop flying and start commanding I will have you banned. You can't command while flying if you don't resign I will get you kicked.

I've yet to see these demands made by ANYONE else but 2 people, and i've only seen them directed at myself, i'm guessing these people make the same demands of other commanders, if they truely believe that a commanders job is to stay on their titan. So maybe other commanders have had similar problems, but i'm not the type to swallow stuff if I think its wrong. The forums are a unique way to voice those complaints and have the issue dealt with by those who normally play on this server.

I think respecting peoples style of game play is excellent, but i'm against respecting peoples style of game play when it enforces certain restricitions on others style of game play. And once again I state, How can you tell someone they can't do something, when theres many others who do even less and yet they aren't singled out or warned or anything else.

[Gunship]

Re: Commanding

I just left the 2142 server, and I was on the same team as Tanari. He and I argued about what has been said on this post, but what got me is that after he flew around the whole time, he told squad leaders "everyone go on the titan when shields goes down"... When we had no silos, and our titan blew up, there was no commander.

I actually tried to get the commander position, and he quit at the end of the round so he didn't have to get the loss.

Then, the level changed.

And he got commander again.

Tanari, you never said in these posts how you become shady when your team needs a commander. In fact, everything you posted about this topic is a bunch of crap. You're in the commander position for double points. Please don't be a noob commander. Go play single player if you want to command and fly.

[Tanari]

Double the points? I can easily get more points without taking the commander position. I do it almost every time I ain't commander.

Actually I flew around in 2 gunships then I stayed on titan for a bit eatting my breakfast and issueing out uav's emps supply drops, then I took a transport to the enemy titan.

Yes I did resign commander post when the lose was evident, is this agaist the rules? far as I know i'm just using good sense and keeping my win/loss ratio intact.

Next round I took it again, and flew a transport around the entire time at max elevation and we won. Didn't issue out anything cause none were requested

Next round I took it again, and we won again. I flew gunship and transport.

And your neglecting to tell folks your VOIP conversation where every other word to me was an insult, where I never insulted you whatsoever, I told u that you were entitled to your beliefs and to act like the adult you sounded to be. Sound like your mad because I posted a complaint about you in the "Report a Jerk" section of this board.

[Dead...Again]

Okay, here are my $.02. I don't know if I have played when Tanari was commander, so this is all general and not directed at any individual (except the moron who was commanding one round last night).
The commander's primary role on the battlefield is to support the rest of the team by issuing orders, using UAV, etc. (the special abilities they have. AFAIK, commanders do not get points for killing people, capping silos, etc. Their points are based on the average score of the people they are commanding. If they are not properly aiding the team by giving good orders, providing UAV and supplies, spotting the enemy, etc. then the team will generally do worse. This will give you less points and decrease your likelyhood of getting 2x.
Now to the moron comment. Last night I was playing Titan defending silo 1. I repeatedly asked the commander for supplies and UAV, both through the comm rose and via VOIP. I never got a response. As far as I know, our commander didn't use UAV once the entire round. At one point, I found the commander running around at Silo 1 (where I was). I asked him again for UAV and supplies. Still no response. This is ridiculous! Why the hell are you going to be commander if you aren't going to support the team.
End rant.

[Thrashdragon]

A fighting commander will never be as effective as one that concentrates exclusively on commanding. A flying one even less so. That said, while we do not have a hard-and-fast rule against flying commanders here, it is generally frowned upon and a common rule on many servers and if you're going to do it, be prepared to get hollered at. Personally I don't care what the commander chooses to do in Titan mode as long as he's paying at least a little bit of attention.

What was told to me (threatened) was this.

If you don't stop flying and start commanding I will have you banned. You can't command while flying if you don't resign I will get you kicked.

No CLR should ever be threatening anyone with kicking or banning. If an admin needs to remove someone, we will do it, but we will do it quietly. We don't threaten people here. If this occurs again, you need to PM Cain or an admin about it.

Yes I did resign commander post when the lose was evident, is this agaist the rules? far as I know i'm just using good sense and keeping my win/loss ratio intact.

This is the one thing that really bothers me. Why do you care about preserving a stat that by your own actions, doesn't mean anything? In addition, you hung your team out to dry by resigning. I've seen Titan matches do a complete turnaround numerous times, that's not possible when the commander resigns when things start looking rough. :P