Straw Poll

[MR_MADHATTER]

Who do you like for President/Vice President?

Obama/Biden

McCain/Palin

Your write in candidate (please specify)

Undecided

I hope this dosn't start a war in here....

[(DSP)-Bar]

McCain/Palin FTW !!!

[{CLR}geneSW]

undecided... And I think i'm outside my vote time anyways as I would have to put in an absentee ballet because i'm outside of my state. :cry:

[Mobojo]

I have to research the candidates some more before I pick.

[K PhaNTOM]

I was gonna vote 100% McCain before he chose the "chick" Now I wont be voting, because what is worst than voting for Palin? is voting for Obama...

[(DSP)-Bar]

I was gonna vote 100% McCain before he chose the "chick" Now I wont be voting, because what is worst than voting for Palin? is voting for Obama...

I think Palin is a prime example of the American way of life. She is in her 40s, she has a son being shipped to Iraq, she has a pregnant daughter, has a 7-8 year-old daughter and has a newborn son with downs.

I think everyone's biggest complaint is her Foreign policy. Here is my opinion on Foreign policy.... You learn. I don't think Obama has any more Foreign policy experience then she does... and he is running to be the President. Personally I think he is an idiot with no experience at all... and there seems to be this religious cult following him. And I'm not interested.

[Stealth]

RON PAUL for President!

[Trooper110]

I've read too and seen too many reports of negatives on Palin to even put her in consideration to possibly be president. Experience isn't everything, I don't count that against her or Obama. I don't like McCain's past track record on a lot of issues, and I don't trust Palin any farther than I can drop kick her. Not saying Obama/Biden ticket is perferct, there's a lot I don't like there, especially with Biden, but it's better than the McCain/Palin ticket for this country imo.

[K PhaNTOM]

I think Palin is a prime example of the American way of life. She is in her 40s, she has a son being shipped to Iraq, she has a pregnant daughter, has a 7-8 year-old daughter and has a newborn son with downs.

That's exactly it. I dont want a VP that has to change diapers or hell, get pregnant on the job pffffffft. and dont forget McCain a KFC biscuit away from death :wink:

[Duke{CLR}]

Mcain/Palin for me. The last thing we need is is bigger government.

[linemanstud]

McCain/Palin for me. I'm pretty conservative, so that is the obvious choice. You would think I would pick Obama, being from near Chicago and all, but he is all talk. I mean it in the very best way when i say he is the same type of politician as Hitler. I don't intend for that to offend anyone, but it is true. He is a very charismatic speaker who tells people what they want to hear without giving it any backing. His campaign is based on "change" but he hasn't really said how he is going to change things. He has almost no experience and its hard to see how he truly stand on some issues because we haven't gotten to see him vote on some issues yet. The worst thing for me above all of this though is he supported the 700 billion bailout. I think it is wrong for the government to fix the screw-ups of the ridiculously rich, and our economy is in line for a depression anyway. Thats just how the economy works and there is really no stopping it. The only thing to do is buy up stocks while they are cheap.

[FieryDragon]

Undecided b/c I don't like either party!

[Skud]

It's a ticket in which BOTH cadidates can put together a coherent sentence when discussing the economy or foreign policy. I wouldn't want my neighbor lady running the show, and I sure wouldn't want Palin. Oh, here are some of her quotes (to highlight not her hair, but her [lack of] qualifications):
http://politicalhumor.about.com/od/sarahpalin/a/palin-top-10.htm


McCain has flipped big time on his stances, immigration, economics, won't talk about pro-choice anymore...to get elected...so I wouldn't say Obama is the only one to say what it takes to get elected (see McCain's latest calls for regulation, and look where he's stood for the past 30 years)...but McCain has voted with Bush 95% of the time, when he has actually voted. And the ones that he hasn't flipped on, I disagree with.

Anyway, if you haven't heard the news: government is getting bigger...most spending/deficits ever, and that's before the 700 billion bailout...and much of the war spending...so to not vote Democrat for fear of big government is....Face it, some day someone will have to pay for all this spending. The current Admin wouldn't mind sticking a Democratic admin with it, I'm sure, which is possibly why they ended up with such a weak ticket. Who could possibly clean up the mess they've made in four or eight years? For me, nothing could be worse than the last eight years, but I'm sure McCain/Palin could give it a run. :|

[LIMEY]

I think they all suck! But again we are faced with a better of two evils situation, so with regret I would pull a lever for McCain Palin

[FieryDragon]

Vote for Nurse Pam~

You got my vote!

I heard she is a Master-Debater! hehe

[Hammy]

I voted other. None of these people are impressive.

[jaspurr]

You got my vote!

I heard she is a Master-Debater! hehe

:| _______x______ The line just got crossed

[juneau]

I think they all suck! But again we are faced with a better of two evils situation, so with regret I would pull a lever for McCain Palin

Hey, just think. You could have Gordon Brown. :twisted:

[Hunter_Killer]

i found out im the only kid in my economics/gov class thats republican... not moderate or democrate.... WOW8)

[jaspurr]

Hey, just think. You could have Gordon Brown. :twisted:

Who :scratch::wink:

[mapes]

I have some problems with Palin.

Lack of experience

The fact that she charged victims of rape for they're rape evidence kits...ughhh thats repulsive

Palin would outlaw abortion....even in the extreme case of where a woman was raped.....

I really don't care for the religulous angle either.


Not saying Obama is perfect and rather than create a Ralph Nader episode all over again I will be voting for him.

[jaspurr]

I have some problems with Palin.

Lack of experience

The fact that she charged victims of rape for they're rape evidence kits...ughhh thats repulsive

Palin would outlaw abortion....even in the extreme case of where a woman was raped.....

I really don't care for the religulous angle either.


Not saying Obama is perfect and rather than create a Ralph Nader episode all over again I will be voting for him.

You convinced me Mapes. Wish I had the vote. I worked as a scrub nurse in a gynae operating theatre and I remember the terrified look of a of traumatised rape victim before their procedure. Palin would have forced her to go prolonge the trauma.

[Jeffro]

i'm going for obama/biden

i think he would do really good for this country and i do believe in him. yes i do lean left, but i'm not a huge liberal...

i look at the two nominees and i weigh them in my own ideals of what i think the United States should and can be.

i have always respected John McCain as a person and i do believe he is a person of great honor and values but i just do not agree with him. if he becomes our president, then i will respect him as our President, but i'm going for Obama.:D

[Trooper110]

Vote for me, your friendly megalomaniac power hungry dictator candidate....who's ready for re-institution of gladatorial games?!

[FieryDragon]

:| _______x______ The line just got crossed

Haha..Can't take a little joke? Anywho...I will not be voting for either of the two morons!

[K PhaNTOM]

Haha..Can't take a little joke? Anywho...I will not be voting for either of the two morons!

No need for namecalling, I don't see you nominating to become anything :p

[Gimmie2]

if i was old enough to vote, i would vote for obama/biden for 2 reasons, first: 8 years of Bush's policies was too much (McCain is just like bush on ALL important issues) and second : Colbert is no longer on the ballot....:cry:

[K PhaNTOM]

if i was old enough to vote, i would vote for obama/biden for 2 reasons, first: 8 years of Bush's policies was too much (McCain is just like bush on ALL important issues) and second : Colbert is no longer on the ballot....:cry:

That's exactly why they won't let you vote! lol.... Colbert... :p

[Gimmie2]

lol (that was a joke....)

[K PhaNTOM]

lol (that was a joke....)

I wonder how many would vote for real... that would be sad :D

[FieryDragon]

No need for namecalling, I don't see you nominating to become anything :p

I already said I just want to be the guy to push the BIG RED BUTTON! That's it!

It would be funny that if it was really purple or pink. haha

[ViTO]

it wont be...

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y56/vitopagano/bamabiden.jpg

so it looks like...

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y56/vitopagano/POST/cainsiggypres.jpg

and

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y56/vitopagano/340x.jpg

[(DSP)-Bar]

Obama Biden Laden and Osama Bin Laden



http://politicalpartypoop.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/09/obama1.jpg

[DougBob]

I selected other. First it's nobody's business who I vote for, but that's not why I selected other. I definely will not vote for Obama. There is something about him that isn't right and my instincts have never failed me yet. I would say I'm voting for M/P but I'm just getting sick and tired of the whole freaking Republican vs Democrat BS. Neither party stands for what the American public need. Neither party gives a damn what is best for the public and sure as hell, the american public doesn't have a freaking clue what an election is all about. The GD kids today think they know what their talking about when they attempt to get into a political conversation, but they can't stop listening to BS other people blow up their arss and start researching stuff to find out for themselves.
The whole damn thing just has me so pissed at the process in general.b Somebody better get a clue somewhere and quit the I wanna look and sound good for the camera crap and quit telling me what I can own, where I can own it and what's better for me. :pissed:

[DougBob]

By the way, now you know why I don't reply to political conversations here. 8)

[warlock2411]

if i was old enough to vote, i would vote for obama/biden for 2 reasons, first: 8 years of Bush's policies was too much (McCain is just like bush on ALL important issues) and second : Colbert is no longer on the ballot....:cry:

dont believe everything that the media tries to mouth feed you man..

wish i was old enough to vote.. because there would be one more Mccain/Palin voter..

Obama voted to cut funding for our troops.. thats in a way like saying why dont we just let them die.

He has absolutely no experience.. someone said after being asked what obama has done in the senate and the person replied "run for president" which is exactly right.. he has nothing going for him.. he is in my opinion just another congressman...

he says the things the citizens want to hear.. but never says what hes going to do about it.. Someone said earlier about obama being like Hitler.. and hes right.. Hitler said he would make Germany better? right? what did he do? he never stated how he was going to do it.. now im not sayings hes going to go out and do what hitler did.. but obama has no idea what he is doing..

Dear Mr Obama (from an Iraqi Veteran.) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TG4fe9GlWS8)

[jeffro74]

it wont be...

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y56/vitopagano/bamabiden.jpg

so it looks like...

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y56/vitopagano/POST/cainsiggypres.jpg

and

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y56/vitopagano/340x.jpg

gotta go with Vito on this one.:2thumbs:

[Warhead]

I selected other. First it's nobody's business who I vote for, but that's not why I selected other. I definely will not vote for Obama. There is something about him that isn't right and my instincts have never failed me yet. I would say I'm voting for M/P but I'm just getting sick and tired of the whole freaking Republican vs Democrat BS. Neither party stands for what the American public need. Neither party gives a damn what is best for the public and sure as hell, the american public doesn't have a freaking clue what an election is all about. The GD kids today think they know what their talking about when they attempt to get into a political conversation, but they can't stop listening to BS other people blow up their arss and start researching stuff to find out for themselves.
The whole damn thing just has me so pissed at the process in general.b Somebody better get a clue somewhere and quit the I wanna look and sound good for the camera crap and quit telling me what I can own, where I can own it and what's better for me. :pissed:I couldn't have said it better myself

[col.kurtz]

Wow, really scary that someone not old enough to vote would compare Obama to Hitler. That's just astounding. Have you studied 1930's Germany? Kind of makes me wish I would have just played the game instead of opening this link. So we want a person who has a communications degree from the U of Idaho one bad heartbeat away from the presidency over a guy with a law degree from Syracuse (Biden)? Who better to protect our constitutional rights than a man with a doctorate in law who taught constitutional law at Columbia (Obama)? Wanna talk about big government? How about a 10 Trillion dollar national debt? Bush and the Republicans have pushed the national debt more than 4 Trillion dollars over a short 8 years. Seriously, you won't vote Democrat because the last Democratic president created over half a trillion dollar surplus? In the 59 years from 1948-2007, the U.S. economy has grown faster under Democratic presidents than Republican presidents. The annual growth of the real gross national product was 1.64 percent per capita under Republican presidents vs. 2.78 percent under Democrats.

Please people stop with the ditto-head attacks because someone’s name sounds strange. Go to the candidates’ sites and make up your own mind rather than repeating negative b.s. being spewed by hateful individuals who will do anything to stay in power. Stop listening to and spreading lies. Stick to the facts and the candidates’ policy ideas. All this hateful rhetoric just makes those spreading it look imbecilic. Remember the rumors being spread via e-mail and blogs all over the Internet are created by professional paid consultants whose only job is to create factions in the American populace. Same people spreading the hate against Obama are those who nearly destroyed John McCain 8 years ago. You may remember they called him a Manchurian candidate because he was a P.O.W.? Disgraceful! He now has them on his payroll. Please research on your own. Stop listening to the media and use your God-given ability to make rational decisions.
P.S. McCain has consistently voted against increases in veteran healthcare. He voted against the 21st Century GI Bill which was overwhelmingly supported by the Veterans of Foreign Wars.

[jaspurr]

Haha..Can't take a little joke? Anywho...I will not be voting for either of the two morons!

Maybe differing opinions but it is an open forum that encourages young players and families and I have the weirdest humour going but as I said there is a line that I believe was crossed, innocently maybe but crossed all the same IMO. I would not want my daughter asking me what it meant. No criticisism of you, just pointing out that some thought would be appreciated. :2thumbs:

[Skud]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IH0xzsogzAk

Mentions his votes on funding the troops...among other things..."straight talk express". :puke:

Or there's this:
http://www.rollingstone.com/news/coverstory/make_believe_maverick_the_real_john_mccain

Could find many others...even Rove says McCain's lies are over the top. Well, watch the debates tonight, everyone...however, technology is such that Palin probably won't even have a lump in the back of her jacket where her earpiece is plugged into, like GW had...so maybe she might at least tread water. :D

Oh, more on lies (but like the last campaigns, say it all before there's time for the voters to find the truth...once you're elected, you're golden):
http://www.mccainpedia.org/index.php/Count_the_Lies

[K PhaNTOM]

By the way, now you know why I don't reply to political conversations here. 8)

Remind me not to piss you off sheez.....

[Skud]

Wow, really scary that someone not old enough to vote would compare Obama to Hitler. That's just astounding. Have you studied 1930's Germany? Kind of makes me wish I would have just played the game instead of opening this link. So we want a person who has a communications degree from the U of Idaho one bad heartbeat away from the presidency over a guy with a law degree from Syracuse (Biden)? Who better to protect our constitutional rights than a man with a doctorate in law who taught constitutional law at Columbia (Obama)? Wanna talk about big government? How about a 10 Trillion dollar national debt? Bush and the Republicans have pushed the national debt more than 4 Trillion dollars over a short 8 years. Seriously, you won't vote Democrat because the last Democratic president created over half a trillion dollar surplus? In the 59 years from 1948-2007, the U.S. economy has grown faster under Democratic presidents than Republican presidents. The annual growth of the real gross national product was 1.64 percent per capita under Republican presidents vs. 2.78 percent under Democrats.

Please people stop with the ditto-head attacks because someone?s name sounds strange. Go to the candidates? sites and make up your own mind rather than repeating negative b.s. being spewed by hateful individuals who will do anything to stay in power. Stop listening to and spreading lies. Stick to the facts and the candidates? policy ideas. All this hateful rhetoric just makes those spreading it look imbecilic. Remember the rumors being spread via e-mail and blogs all over the Internet are created by professional paid consultants whose only job is to create factions in the American populace. Same people spreading the hate against Obama are those who nearly destroyed John McCain 8 years ago. You may remember they called him a Manchurian candidate because he was a P.O.W.? Disgraceful! He now has them on his payroll. Please research on your own. Stop listening to the media and use your God-given ability to make rational decisions.
P.S. McCain has consistently voted against increases in veteran healthcare. He voted against the 21st Century GI Bill which was overwhelmingly supported by the Veterans of Foreign Wars.

I'm afraid it could be wasted breath, though. Research of politics is "boring" to most of the public...sound bites are good enough.

The first "election" of Bush I thought was a fluke. The second "election", after 4 years of lies, utterly dismayed me...and now a third election, with a pair that openly embraces all the policies of the current admin, that should not have been elected once...that has a 27% approval rating...and nearly 50% of the country will vote for them. Nothing short of starving in the streets will change their minds, I'm afraid. Facts don't matter...choose the soccer mom, the guy you could have a beer with...who cares if they're last in their class...got here by connections, and don't give a damn about you? And I'm wasting my breath for the last time on this thread...eight years...NOTHING positive to show...and people will do it again. Wow. :sad:

[linemanstud]

Wow, really scary that someone not old enough to vote would compare Obama to Hitler. That's just astounding. Have you studied 1930's Germany? Kind of makes me wish I would have just played the game instead of opening this link. So we want a person who has a communications degree from the U of Idaho one bad heartbeat away from the presidency over a guy with a law degree from Syracuse (Biden)? Who better to protect our constitutional rights than a man with a doctorate in law who taught constitutional law at Columbia (Obama)? Wanna talk about big government? How about a 10 Trillion dollar national debt? Bush and the Republicans have pushed the national debt more than 4 Trillion dollars over a short 8 years. Seriously, you won't vote Democrat because the last Democratic president created over half a trillion dollar surplus? In the 59 years from 1948-2007, the U.S. economy has grown faster under Democratic presidents than Republican presidents. The annual growth of the real gross national product was 1.64 percent per capita under Republican presidents vs. 2.78 percent under Democrats.

Please people stop with the ditto-head attacks because someone?s name sounds strange. Go to the candidates? sites and make up your own mind rather than repeating negative b.s. being spewed by hateful individuals who will do anything to stay in power. Stop listening to and spreading lies. Stick to the facts and the candidates? policy ideas. All this hateful rhetoric just makes those spreading it look imbecilic. Remember the rumors being spread via e-mail and blogs all over the Internet are created by professional paid consultants whose only job is to create factions in the American populace. Same people spreading the hate against Obama are those who nearly destroyed John McCain 8 years ago. You may remember they called him a Manchurian candidate because he was a P.O.W.? Disgraceful! He now has them on his payroll. Please research on your own. Stop listening to the media and use your God-given ability to make rational decisions.
P.S. McCain has consistently voted against increases in veteran healthcare. He voted against the 21st Century GI Bill which was overwhelmingly supported by the Veterans of Foreign Wars.

were you talking about me with that hitler thing?

[linemanstud]

I have some problems with Palin.

Lack of experience

The fact that she charged victims of rape for they're rape evidence kits...ughhh thats repulsive

Palin would outlaw abortion....even in the extreme case of where a woman was raped.....

I really don't care for the religulous angle either.


Not saying Obama is perfect and rather than create a Ralph Nader episode all over again I will be voting for him.

Lets remember that we are voting for President and not Vice-President. Lack of experience is not as important of an argument against a Vice-President (Palin) as it would be against a President (Obama). We have to remember that Obama has only been a senator for about 4 years now. That is a very different kind of government than the state house seat he was in before and a very short time to experience government at a national level.

[Trooper110]

I don't care what your previous experience was, there's nothing that's going to prepare you for being President of the United States of America. All you have is your ability to work with people, a look at what you may do in the future from what you've done in the past, and what you're involvement with various organizations, companies, groups, whatever shows.

Personally, I like Obama's ideas, and I like his past track record. I don't care for Biden and a lot of his stances. McCain seriously worries me with the current status of the world and the US economy based off things he's said, done, and his campaign continues to blather on with. Palin just frightens me on damn near everything but lack of experience, that's easily made up for.

[mapes]

The new GI bill was supported or written (I forget)by Jim Webb. the more I hear about that guy the more I like him.....

[warlock2411]

were you talking about me with that hitler thing?

naw he was talking about me.. but think about it... im not saying that hes evil like hitler was (even though every now and then i have my suspicions).. the way i said he was like hitler was because he never explains how hes going to do anything.. the most popular comparison i could make and it was in my mind after hearing lineman talking about it... we have no idea how Obama is going to go about "making this country better" because he has never really explained himself.. he has said things he would like to do.. but i would like to go to Ireland.. but you have to have money first to do that.. does Obama have a plan to get the money to fund these things..

All Obama talks about is change.. and how Mccain is just like Bush.. and he can never back it..

[Trooper110]

Look in to McCain's voting record. He's voted along with Bush on like 95% of things he voted on. He's praised Bush for numerous things, de-regulating the economy among them, which has helped lead to the current f*** up of our economy.

If you've read anything at all about how Hitler came to power, you wouldn't be making that comparison. Go read The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich....long and very fact filled, very very good read though. Before you start making comparisons, make sure you have some idea about what you're talking about.

[warlock2411]

Look in to McCain's voting record. He's voted along with Bush on like 95% of things he voted on. He's praised Bush for numerous things, de-regulating the economy among them, which has helped lead to the current f*** up of our economy.

If you've read anything at all about how Hitler came to power, you wouldn't be making that comparison. Go read The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich....long and very fact filled, very very good read though. Before you start making comparisons, make sure you have some idea about what you're talking about.

look.. like i said before.. the ONLY!!! thing that im comparing him to Hitler is the fact that he doesn't explain how he will make the country better.. i mentioned nothing of how hitler got into office.. do i have to explain this again?

and personally i dont think Bush has done all that bad of a job.. its just the democratic media blowing it out of proportion.. people act like the whole bailout deal that is currently going on is his fault.. :roll:.. all these bills that were passed that are supposedly bad.. were passed by a democratic congress to even get to the president to pass. one of the only things Bush can do without others consent is deploy more troops overseas.. i believe 6 out of the 8 years bush was in office he had a democratic congress.

[FieryDragon]

Vote for me, your friendly megalomaniac power hungry dictator candidate....who's ready for re-institution of gladatorial games?!

YouTube - My Name Is Maximus... GLADIATOR (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jkN8Yx7p9H8)

[MR_MADHATTER]

2 things that should always be avoided.
Argueing about religion and argueing about politics. My policy has been to simply state my views and let it go. But it's hard to avoid spouting off at some people. Once started, it's hard to stop because everyone wants the last word. The media dosn't help either because they love controversy. They do evrything they can to stir people up. I have only said this because things can get heated very quickly. We should set an example for others (especially mud slinging politicians) and stick to the facts and issues.

[Tuck]

I've read too and seen too many reports of negatives on Palin to even put her in consideration to possibly be president.

Don't fall for the media caricature that has been created for Sarah Palin. I think the debate last night showed she can hold her own, and that she's not nearly the vapid airhead the media present her to be. It also showed that when you pull the media filter away, she does really well.

[Tuck]

The fact that she charged victims of rape for they're rape evidence kits...ughhh thats repulsive

Palin would outlaw abortion....even in the extreme case of where a woman was raped.....

Neither one of those concerns are true.

Your first claim has been debunked by a couple of sources. There is no evidence that Wasilla ever made anyone pay for a rape kit, plus there is evidence that the police department has paid for them itself on occasion.

As for the second claim, there is no doubt that Sarah Palin is pro life. And she not only talks the talk, she walks the walk. Her youngest son is proof of that.

But neither Sarah Palin nor John McCain has the power to make abortion illegal, nor have they stated any intention to do so. It's just scaremongering from the left.

[K PhaNTOM]

Did anyone watch the debate last night? I am not a big Palin or Biden fan, but she owned him :2thumbs: Score 1,000,001 Republican to 0,000,0002 for Dems :twisted:

[jaspurr]

Did anyone watch the debate last night? I am not a big Palin or Biden fan, but she owned him :2thumbs: Score 1,000,001 Republican to 0,000,0002 for Dems :twisted:

She is a wife with kids, like he had a chance:shock::D

[mapes]

Neither one of those concerns are true.

Your first claim has been debunked by a couple of sources. There is no evidence that Wasilla ever made anyone pay for a rape kit, plus there is evidence that the police department has paid for them itself on occasion.

As for the second claim, there is no doubt that Sarah Palin is pro life. And she not only talks the talk, she walks the walk. Her youngest son is proof of that.

But neither Sarah Palin nor John McCain has the power to make abortion illegal, nor have they stated any intention to do so. It's just scaremongering from the left.

It was not de-bunked, either she was negligent as a mayor in submitting the budget or she did fully endorse it.

I lead you to this article which uses actual documents from the city of Wasilla. If you'd care to read for your self.

Jacob Alperin-Sheriff: New Evidence: Palin Had Direct Role In Charging Rape Victims For Exams (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jacob-alperinsheriff/sarah-palin-instituted-ra_b_125833.html)

I don't know if they actually charged anyone for the evidence kit.

As for over turning Rove v Wade. The next administration will most likely get to appoint 2 Supreme Court Justices. Most likely 2 of the liberal Justices. Basically the Dems have more to lose in the Supreme court and the Conservatives have more to gain.


By the way Madhatter I agree with you completely.

[col.kurtz]

naw he was talking about me.. but think about it... im not saying that hes evil like hitler was (even though every now and then i have my suspicions).. the way i said he was like hitler was because he never explains how hes going to do anything.. the most popular comparison i could make and it was in my mind after hearing lineman talking about it... we have no idea how Obama is going to go about "making this country better" because he has never really explained himself.. he has said things he would like to do.. but i would like to go to Ireland.. but you have to have money first to do that.. does Obama have a plan to get the money to fund these things..

All Obama talks about is change.. and how Mccain is just like Bush.. and he can never back it..

I was trying not to single out anyone. I saw at least 3 posts comparing Obama to Hitler and a few more comparing him to Osama. Hitler was very succinct in his plans. He was very concise and a skilled orator/politician. He didn't beat around the bush. Anyone who listened to his speeches knew very well where he stood. So to say that a politician who isn't quite as specific about his plans is like Hitler is a misnomer. It is a sad commentary on the American voting populace that politicians today are limited to sound bites and 30-second ads. Most of the people I talk to will admit that they haven't taken the time to visit either candidates' website. Many, many people accused Kerry of being too specific in the last election. He had some very good plans and so did Gore before him. But much of the population, sadly if true, never bothered to study the plans of either candidate. They lived up to the thought espoused by the current director of the McCain campaign: "This election is not about issues, it's about appearances."

To be honest, not taking anything away from the soldier who bravely served his country in the youtube video you posted, McCain has no specific plan to end the war in Iraq. Obama has a very specific plan that sets a timeline for troop withdrawal and puts an end to keeping our brave men and women in harm's way. If I were in Iraq right now, I think I would like to know that my president has a concise plan to get me the hell out of there as quickly as possible. To say that leaving Iraq is a surrender and dishonors our troops is outrageous. Our troops serve the commander in chief. They risk their lives for our country and it is a dishonor to them to suggest that a single drop of their blood was shed in vain because we didn't achieve some ambiguous definition of victory.

I would encourage you, Warlock, to visit the candidates' sites. Educate yourself on the issues and where they stand if you haven't already. But, more importantly, please at least Wiki Hitler and understand how truly evil and heartless the man was. He was first and foremost a politician, so you can easily compare any modern-day politician to Hitler, including, gulp, Reagan. But the comparisons stop when you read Hitler's writings or listen to (read the transcripts) of his speeches.

If we don't learn from our elders' mistakes, we are forever fools.

[warlock2411]

I was trying not to single out anyone. I saw at least 3 posts comparing Obama to Hitler and a few more comparing him to Osama. Hitler was very succinct in his plans. He was very concise and a skilled orator/politician. He didn't beat around the bush. Anyone who listened to his speeches knew very well where he stood. So to say that a politician who isn't quite as specific about his plans is like Hitler is a misnomer. It is a sad commentary on the American voting populace that politicians today are limited to sound bites and 30-second ads. Most of the people I talk to will admit that they haven't taken the time to visit either candidates' website. Many, many people accused Kerry of being too specific in the last election. He had some very good plans and so did Gore before him. But much of the population, sadly if true, never bothered to study the plans of either candidate. They lived up to the thought espoused by the current director of the McCain campaign: "This election is not about issues, it's about appearances."

To be honest, not taking anything away from the soldier who bravely served his country in the youtube video you posted, McCain has no specific plan to end the war in Iraq. Obama has a very specific plan that sets a timeline for troop withdrawal and puts an end to keeping our brave men and women in harm's way. If I were in Iraq right now, I think I would like to know that my president has a concise plan to get me the hell out of there as quickly as possible. To say that leaving Iraq is a surrender and dishonors our troops is outrageous. Our troops serve the commander in chief. They risk their lives for our country and it is a dishonor to them to suggest that a single drop of their blood was shed in vain because we didn't achieve some ambiguous definition of victory.

I would encourage you, Warlock, to visit the candidates' sites. Educate yourself on the issues and where they stand if you haven't already. But, more importantly, please at least Wiki Hitler and understand how truly evil and heartless the man was. He was first and foremost a politician, so you can easily compare any modern-day politician to Hitler, including, gulp, Reagan. But the comparisons stop when you read Hitler's writings or listen to (read the transcripts) of his speeches.

If we don't learn from our elders' mistakes, we are forever fools.the thing is hitler never stated how he wanted to end the problems in Germany... atleast thats what i was taught in school... maybe the teacher was wrong.. who knows..

i have looked at each of the candidates sites briefly.. but never found either helpful because they're obviously both biased.. and half of it both of them will find out they wont be able to achieve. Mccain more so wants to get Iraqs economy back on its feet.. And get them prepared for us to leave.. Obama seems like he wants to move the troups back in to afghanistan. which we do have to get more troops back into Afghanistan too. but he wants to get troops out of Iraq as soon as possible.. let them do their own thing.. which would leave Iraq, and us, extremely vulnerable.

Obamas voting history in controversial votes.. about 3/4 of the time there was no vote from him..

Project Vote Smart - Senator Barack H. Obama Jr. - Voting Record (http://www.votesmart.org/voting_category.php?can_id=9490)

all of the NV's are no votes..

Mccain wants to get rid of all pork barrel projects while obama seems to support a lot of this wasteful spending.

I was reading the new issue of Field and Stream and they were comparing Obama and Mccains views on the outdoor sportsmen, such as hunting.. and gun control. it says that Obama has supported a total ban of handguns, A ban on the sale or transfer of semi-auto firearms, a ban on the right-to-carry permits, a ban of firearms kept in the home, among others.

Obamas voting record on guns

*

Voted NO on The Protection of Lawful Commerce in Arms Act - S. 397
Senator Obama voted against protecting the firearms industry from frivolous lawsuits seeking to hold manufacturers, retailers and distributors responsible for the criminal actions of others.
*

Voted YES on Prohibition on Confiscation of Firearms - S.AMDT.4615
The amendment prohibits the confiscation of a firearm during an emergency or major disaster if the possession of such firearm is not prohibited under Federal of State law.
*

Voted YES on Ammunition Ban - SA1615
Senator Obama voted to expand the definition of armor piercing ammunition, a vote that could have helped ban all rifle cartridges as virtually all rifle ammunition has the capability of piercing "bullet proof" vests.
*

Voted YES on Exemption for Children to the PLCAA S.AMDT.1620
The purpose of this amendment was to exempt lawsuits involving injuries to children from the definition of qualified civil liability action. By voting for this amendment, Senator Obama attempted to hurt the firearms industry by giving minors the right to sue law-abiding firearms manufacturers, retailers and distributors for the criminal actions of others.

Mccains voting record on guns
#

Voted NO on background checks at gun shows. (May 1999)
#

Voted YES on loosening license and background checks at gun shows.
#

Voted to table or kill a motion to require that: all gun sales at gun shows be completed by federally licensed gun dealers: background checks be completed by buyers, gun show promoters to register with the Treasury. (May 1999)
#

Voted YES on The Protection of Lawful Commerce in Arms Act - S. 397.
#

Senator McCain voted in favor of protecting the firearms industry from frivolous lawsuits seeking to hold manufacturers, retailers and distributors responsible for the criminal actions of others.
#

Voted YES on maintaining current law: guns sold without trigger locks.
#

Voted to table or kill an amendment to make it unlawful for gun dealers to sell handguns without providing trigger locks. Violation of the law would result in civil penalties, such as suspension or revocation of the dealer's license, or a fine. (July 1998)
#

Voted YES on more penalties for gun and drug violations.
The Hatch amendment would increase mandatory penalties for the illegal transfer or use of firearms, fund additional drug case prosecutors and require background checks on purchasers at gun shows. (May 1999)
#

Introduced the Youth Violence Prevention Act
Prevents juveniles from illegal access to weapons and punishes those who would assist them in doing so; prohibits juveniles who commit acts of gun violence from purchasing guns in the future; sentences juveniles convicted of violent crimes under adult guidelines; punishes juveniles who illegally carry or use handguns in schools. (May 1999)
#

Voted against Brady Bill & Assault Weapon Ban
McCain spoke generally of the need for some tighter gun controls on hardened criminals and children. In Congress, he pressured his colleagues to require background checks for buyers at gun shows, and he supported a requirement that trigger locks be sold with handguns. But the Senator opposed the two major gun-control measures of recent years, the 1994 ban on several types of assault weapons and the Brady Bill, which required a 5-day waiting period for handgun purchases.

sorry this was so long.. got into multiple things..

[MR_MADHATTER]

Just so this point can be understood. Many people (including myself) said that we stoped the first Gulf War too soon. We should have kept on going to Bagdad and removed Sadam when we had the chance. Otherwise we would be back in 5-10 years doing this all over again, and maybe under worse circumstances.

Lo and behold we had to come back. After 9-11-01. I predict/predicted that we should try and erase every last trace of Sadam, kick the insurgents out, rebuild an Iraq with a good government and with a strong defencive military led by level headed people. And not leave untill we are satisfied that all of that had been accomplished. Why did we go to Iraq if not to achieve TOTAL AND COMPLETE UNDENIABLE VICTORY?? Otherwise if we just set a time frame that says we are out in 5-10 years regardless of the situation just so we can get the troops home, we will be back in 5-10 years under even worse circumstances. Sadam was a complete moron as far as his defences went. We had little trouble militarally kicking the living poop out of his army. If insurgents filter back in after we leave and start taking over the country, we may have someone to fight next time that's not such a push-over. We may have to defend Israel from an all out assault from multiple foes. I'm not saying we couldn't pwn them too, but look at how many troops we lost to a smacktard like Sadam.

Anything worth doing is worth doing right....or else don't do it in the first place. War is a nasty business and it should only be engaged in when all other options have been exhausted. However anytime we do engage in a war, (like Iraq) we should not settle for anything less than a perfect outcome. http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/complacency People who claim to be anti-war and call for the removal of our troops are in fact encouraging a situation that could be far worse and unavoidable. So every time I hear someone say they want the troops home, I agree with them. I want them home too. But I don't want to have to send them back in 5-10 years and loose even more of them just because I'm anti-war and want peace at ANY PRICE.



"Victory is more than just beating the other guy in a fight. It's never having to worry about fighting that guy ever again." MR_MADHATTER

[K PhaNTOM]

I think people are taking this president thing too seriously. President or Vice presidents don't rule, they have very limited rights in the U.S. Third world countries have the real president who actually do something. Again, Congress runs this place, presidents only Veto a couple of times and then go show themselves everywhere. I obviously won't vote because it won't matter who gets in the seat. Obama, sure he isn't the old experienced guy who actually fought for this country, but he is promising change and I sure hope to see him do it even thou I am 100% sure he will fail. As for McCain, he is the old guy who served our country in the military and a longass time as a congressman. IT WILL NOT MATTER WHO IS PRESIDENT, we are simply screwed.

[Skud]

Was done with this thread, basically, but I just wanted to point out the reason we didn't go into Iraq the first time was because, as Cheney and Bush Senior rightly put it in the 90's, if you took out Saddam there would be a power vacuum and chaos, fighting between the three sides that were brutally controlled by a dictator.

Now, we have our troops there trying to force peace on fellows who, for religious reasons, have been fighting for over 700 years...except when the dictator beat them into submission. Should our role be that of the dictator for the next 700 years? Our taking out Saddam allowed the Shiite majority to take over the government, and gave Iran the opportunity it had been fighting for. Now Iran, a real threat (not to us, but it's neighbors), is growing in power. Iraq never was a real threat to the continental US.

I think our SuperPower status is waining, as our economy falters...kind of like how the Soviet Union broke its back on Afghanistan (things aren't going well there now, either). To think that we can continue to police the world, without United Nation approval or desire, and without simply aiding terrorist recruitment, is...well....Bring the troops home. Boost intelligence agencies, and if a "real" threat develops, take it out. We have to start building our nation, and stop building others.

[MR_MADHATTER]

That's because the powers that be don't have the courage to finish what they start. They are too worried about what the political fallout might be. Iran will do what Iran will do, regardless of what we did, do or will do. I don't really give a crap who rules what so long as they keep to themselves and shut the hell up. It would be nice if they could be an allie but given the U.N.'s apparent desire that we all be enemies, that dosn't look possible. Our civilian intelligence agencies couldn't tell you what time of day it is if you gave them a clock. If they did find a "real threat to this country", you still need to have people willing to act on that information.

It will come down to this.....One of these jerk contries will use a nuke. Maybe here or somewhere else. If they use it here, politicians are not at liberty to say what our reaction would be. We get nuked, we nuke back...that's our policy written in stone. If they use it somewhere else nobody knows what will happen. I don't like that kind of world.

[K PhaNTOM]

Was done with this thread, basically, but I just wanted to point out the reason we didn't go into Iraq the first time was because, as Cheney and Bush Senior rightly put it in the 90's, if you took out Saddam there would be a power vacuum and chaos, fighting between the three sides that were brutally controlled by a dictator.

Now, we have our troops there trying to force peace on fellows who, for religious reasons, have been fighting for over 700 years...except when the dictator beat them into submission. Should our role be that of the dictator for the next 700 years? Our taking out Saddam allowed the Shiite majority to take over the government, and gave Iran the opportunity it had been fighting for. Now Iran, a real threat (not to us, but it's neighbors), is growing in power. Iraq never was a real threat to the continental US.

I think our SuperPower status is waining, as our economy falters...kind of like how the Soviet Union broke its back on Afghanistan (things aren't going well there now, either). To think that we can continue to police the world, without United Nation approval or desire, and without simply aiding terrorist recruitment, is...well....Bring the troops home. Boost intelligence agencies, and if a "real" threat develops, take it out. We have to start building our nation, and stop building others.

Ah P.S. Iraq's money was holding the soviet union anyways.

1989-1990 (Gulf war) Soviet Union was over, finito, ziltch, nada.
From Wikipedia
"On January 1, 1993 Czechoslovakia 'peacefully' dissolved into its constituent states, the Czech Republic and Slovakia."
2 years after the soviet union Czech got dissovled.

"Breakup of Yugoslavia in the 1990s." Three major parts of the soviet union and the union itself was vanished after their failure in Afghanistan? No, because of the cut-off to the Iraqi economy they were finished. Great decision by Bush senior, just didn't finish it as Madhatter states. My main point was "Iraq = Communism support" And it aint over yet... Iran is just a worst type of communism, the religious kind. Ah and to whoever says the Cold war is over, you are just fooling yourself, it is never over :D

[jeffro74]

the thing is hitler never stated how he wanted to end the problems in Germany... atleast thats what i was taught in school... maybe the teacher was wrong.. who knows..

i have looked at each of the candidates sites briefly.. but never found either helpful because they're obviously both biased.. and half of it both of them will find out they wont be able to achieve. Mccain more so wants to get Iraqs economy back on its feet.. And get them prepared for us to leave.. Obama seems like he wants to move the troups back in to afghanistan. which we do have to get more troops back into Afghanistan too. but he wants to get troops out of Iraq as soon as possible.. let them do their own thing.. which would leave Iraq, and us, extremely vulnerable.

Obamas voting history in controversial votes.. about 3/4 of the time there was no vote from him..

Project Vote Smart - Senator Barack H. Obama Jr. - Voting Record (http://www.votesmart.org/voting_category.php?can_id=9490)

all of the NV's are no votes..

Mccain wants to get rid of all pork barrel projects while obama seems to support a lot of this wasteful spending.

I was reading the new issue of Field and Stream and they were comparing Obama and Mccains views on the outdoor sportsmen, such as hunting.. and gun control. it says that Obama has supported a total ban of handguns, A ban on the sale or transfer of semi-auto firearms, a ban on the right-to-carry permits, a ban of firearms kept in the home, among others.





sorry this was so long.. got into multiple things..

thats just a few of the reasons i will not vote for obama.

[Gimmie2]

lol every time i see a political debate the first thought that pops into my mind is
Godwins Law (wiki it if you have no idea what im talking about)

[BlackArrow]

No matter which way you vote, I suggest a great source I have used over the past few elections. The Annenberg Foundation runs a site called FactCheck which does exactly that....they look at all of the campaign ads and the debates and then tell you whether the facts are correct.

I highly recommend you spend some time on their site. At least you will be informed.

FactCheck.org (http://factcheck.org/)

[RuThLeSsKiLLa]

Obama 08 ftw!!:razz:

[6Pounder]

I dont know, wont have to vote anyways ^^

[Gimmie2]

I dont know, wont have to vote anyways ^^

lol same here (only 17)

[K PhaNTOM]

lol same here (only 17)

He's french, the day we allow him to vote is the day we allow women too :D... oh wait :eek:

[(DSP)-Bar]

He's french, the day we allow him to vote is the day we allow women too :D... oh wait :eek:

Was there a point to that comment or do we just pull things out of our butts because we think they are funny ?

Politics may be a highlight for the next few weeks but do me a favor... keep the stupidity down.

:trolls:

[Minerva]

He's french, the day we allow him to vote is the day we allow women too :D... oh wait :eek:

What a nice comment on your part. You really need to tell us where you get all that inspiration.

[{CLR}geneSW]

He's french, the day we allow him to vote is the day we allow women too :D... oh wait :eek:

:| That's all I have to say about that...:|

[warlock2411]

What a nice comment on your part. You really need to tell us where you get all that inspiration.
it was just a joke guys.. not like he meant it as an insult to French people or Women.

[K PhaNTOM]

Was there a point to that comment or do we just pull things out of our butts because we think they are funny ?

Politics may be a highlight for the next few weeks but do me a favor... keep the stupidity down.

:trolls:

OMFG, you're so sensitive... If you took that comment seriously, then you are in charge of turning the stupidity level down, please...

P.S. No need to say we, just address me directly, we simply do not care, oui?

Edit: so that is what made you put the Hammy quote down there? lol, you your issues are much bigger than I thought... :eek:

[(DSP)-Bar]

OMFG, you're so sensitive... If you took that comment seriously, then you are in charge of turning the stupidity level down, please...

P.S. No need to say we, just address me directly, we simply do not care, oui?


It may be a joke to you... we have a few French people here. And I know we have quite a few women here. You've been cracking off some really stupid comments the past few days and I have been really biting my tongue. You think its funny... 2 other people think its funny. But some people are offended and other visiting this forum "might" become offended.

I spend a lot of time talking in the third person... it happens.

Edit: so that is what made you put the Hammy quote down there? lol, you your issues are much bigger than I thought... :eek:

Its been a stressful week and I thought what he said was funny... And I personally think you walked yourself into that one. As for me having an "issue"... I got loads of issues. You ain't one of them, I got more important things to worry about. :roll:

[K PhaNTOM]

Alright, I'm sorry then. Would it hurt if you said please don't make those comments instead of calling me stupid? Anywho, I am enjoying my stay here even thou so far I've been called homophobic, sexist, stupid (I don't deny that one),and racist.... lol and I enjoy being every one of them :wink: I'M JOKING, damn, they might call me something else now :D

[warlock2411]

Alright, I'm sorry then. Would it hurt if you said please don't make those comments instead of calling me stupid? Anywho, I am enjoying my stay here even thou so far I've been called homophobic, sexist, stupid (I don't deny that one),and racist.... lol and I enjoy being every one of them :wink: I'M JOKING, damn, they might call me something else now :D
im offended phantom :2thumbs:

people get offended in every day life.. i dont come on here and complain about things that offend me.. especially if they are meant for jokes.. i might start a debate with someone.. sometimes if i get too fustrated it turns into and argument :P... but either way.. i dont feel the need to call people stupid just because of their opinions.

[Apache Warrior]

I am against Straw. I like fresh grass. :D
Apache

[MR_MADHATTER]

I am against Straw. I like fresh grass. :D
Apache

Well then how about a "Recently Smuggled Marijuna Poll":twisted:

[6Pounder]

Hum...

Just to calm down things in here, I'll describe how I feel. Phantom, I definatly hate you. I don't like who you are. But I don't care, because i'm the frenchyyyy.

Lol guys I don't mind about what Phantom said, simply because I know who he is and because he likes to joke like that... If it was said differently maybe I wouldn't agree... But bah ^^

Oh and why I posted my first post in the topic? I can't vote simply because I love in the most wonderful country, QUEBEC!

Like Mika said: Relax, take it easssyyyyyy ( sing while squeezing your balls, it works! xD )

[(DSP)-Bar]

Calm things down ? You just bumped it. :D:twisted::D

[K PhaNTOM]

Calm things down ? You just bumped it. :D:twisted::D

WAR! WAR! WAR! Death to the enemies, and Paris Hilton!

BTW: Haven't you heard? This pole is wrong, Obama won :( Better luck next time you elephants, and way to blow it :D

[LIMEY]

WAR! WAR! WAR! Death to the enemies, and Paris Hilton!

BTW: Haven't you heard? This pole is wrong, Obama won :( Better luck next time you elephants, and way to blow it :D

:scratch: so many words for you but so little time to explain them.

[K PhaNTOM]

:scratch: so many words for you but so little time to explain them.

Disregard the first part, but what is so hard to explain? I am willing to bet my left kidney on Obama winning. Don't get me wrong, I am always republican but bad choices like Palin just blew it for us. See? easy stuff right here :D *gets a feeling like I'm gonna get bashed*

[warlock2411]

Disregard the first part, but what is so hard to explain? I am willing to bet my left kidney on Obama winning. Don't get me wrong, I am always republican but bad choices like Palin just blew it for us. See? easy stuff right here :D *gets a feeling like I'm gonna get bashed*

i would much rather have palin as VP than obama as president.. sure palin has made mistakes.. the media has chosen to show those mistakes instead of all the ones Obama has made though..

It scares me that this guy (obama) got into Senate and just started campaigning to run for president. It also makes me sick that our country has grown so stupid.. we know nothing about this guy who wants to be our president.

[(DSP)-Bar]

McCain will win... we aren't ready for President Barack Hussein Obama

[K PhaNTOM]

i would much rather have palin as VP than obama as president.. sure palin has made mistakes.. the media has chosen to show those mistakes instead of all the ones Obama has made though..


I would also, but tell that to the Americans voting, not many seem to share that thought