Ugh on Biden :(

[Trooper110]

Joe Biden's pro-RIAA, pro-FBI tech voting record | Politics and Law - CNET News.com (http://news.cnet.com/8301-13578_3-10024163-38.html?tag=newsLeadStoriesArea.0)

Not a fan of McCain's internet policies, Obama looks half decent, and he goes and picks a running mate like this....

Can't we all just vote for Cain?? :2thumbs:

[Sgt.Fury]

Why is it Joe Biden reminds me of a used car sales man I once bought a used car from
Make sure ya read the fine print

[K PhaNTOM]

Well, I am right wing all the way, so I don't care how Obama is ruining his chance by choosing Biden, McCain FTW, Cain for VP? :D

[Thrashdragon]

I don't think either of the candidates are worth a damn, but the possibility of Obama and Pelosi running this country scares me to death. Enough that I'll go and pull the lever for the other guy.

[Duke{CLR}]

I don't think either of the candidates are worth a damn, but the possibility of Obama and Pelosi running this country scares me to death. Enough that I'll go and pull the lever for the other guy.

+1

[Warhead]

I don't think either of the candidates are worth a damn, but the possibility of Obama and Pelosi running this country scares me to death. Enough that I'll go and pull the lever for the other guy.
Isn't this how Bush got elected the last two times? I don't want to bash anyone, the following is merely my view in general: If you're casting a vote for the lesser of two evils, you aren't helping anything! We still end up screwed...

Even though there isn't much press on them, there are other candidates. Surely someone has similar political views as you. Your vote is about who represents you, not who you can't stand, isn't it?

[Tuck]

Isn't this how Bush got elected the last two times? I don't want to bash anyone, the following is merely my view in general: If you're casting a vote for the lesser of two evils, you aren't helping anything! We still end up screwed...

Even though there isn't much press on them, there are other candidates. Surely someone has similar political views as you. Your vote is about who represents you, not who you can't stand, isn't it?

In reality, there are only two candidates with a chance to win. People are certainly free to vote for whomever is on the ballot, but a vote for one of the other candidates is either a protest vote or a waste of time.

I'm no fan of McCain and never have been, although I've met him twice. But, IMO, it's just too risky to elect Obama, a man whose only real achievement in life is getting elected to the Senate four years ago.

As Joe Biden so aptly said, the presidency is not a position that easily lends itself to on-the-job training.

[Apache Warrior]

I still think all elections should have None Of The Above as a choice. If NOTA wins you have to hold a new election and the previous candidates are not allowed to run again. :2thumbs: :D
Apache

[LIMEY]

I still think all elections should have None Of The Above as a choice. If NOTA wins you have to hold a new election and the previous candidates are not allowed to run again. :2thumbs: :D
Apache

100% agreement, and both of these candidates suck. As far as The Chosen One (Obama) choosing Biden, seems like a bad choice, the candidate of change choosing the insider of 30+ years.....where is the change in that?

[Warhead]

In reality, there are only two candidates with a chance to win. People are certainly free to vote for whomever is on the ballot, but a vote for one of the other candidates is either a protest vote or a waste of time.


I think this holds true only because so many people believe that its true. If people always voted for their best person, rather than against the worst, the country would surely look different today. And if a third party were elected by the people, but not allowed to serve, well that's what revolts are made of.
They don't have to be on the ballot either, write-ins are legitimate votes.

[Murder Simulator]

This time around I'll be voting Republican.

It just seems like the Dems are running a circus with no real qualified person available. Who else they got besides Obama? Hillary? Ya she'd be a great president.

Give me the Establishment. Give me a white old guy, same as we've always had. Might not be the best, but sure is better than the alternative.

[Thrashdragon]

Isn't this how Bush got elected the last two times? I don't want to bash anyone, the following is merely my view in general: If you're casting a vote for the lesser of two evils, you aren't helping anything! We still end up screwed...

Even though there isn't much press on them, there are other candidates. Surely someone has similar political views as you. Your vote is about who represents you, not who you can't stand, isn't it?

If I cast my vote for the person I'd actually like to win, that takes a vote away from the lesser of two evils, therefore helping to get the other party elected, because the person I'd like to win doesn't have a shot in hell in this system.

While your theory is correct on the surface, it's not a realistic option in this flawed, corrupt system where money and the media dictates who our choices are. The fact that the majority of the voting public is ill-informed and generally about as smart as a rock doesn't help either.

:2cents:

[Cal]

...this flawed, corrupt system where money and the media dictates who our choices are. The fact that the majority of the voting public is ill-informed and generally about as smart as a rock doesn't help either....

:2cents:

Amen to that.

While I'll probably vote for McCain, its insulting how dumbed-down this election has been. I try and avoid the tv ads, but its difficult to escape the news articles about them.

Biden seems to be a smart guy along foreign policy lines, but if he's pro-RIAA that means hes probably regressive in a lot of other tech areas (probably pro-monthly bandwidth caps, too).

On a less serious note, if McCain picks Sarah Palin as VP, he'll be able to counter Obama's 'young and attractive' appeal.

Sarah Palin - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarah_Palin)

she's attractive for a politician, heh.

[mapes]

While I have a ton of respect for Senator McCain and would have voted for him in 2000 I cannot in clear conscience vote for him now.

[Skud]

Ask the old question, "are we better off now than we were eight years ago?". I would say that the Bush "tax cuts" have helped about two percent of the population and created more record deficits (after his father and Reagan), along with his "spreading democracy in the Middle East" fiasco, for which we are paying billions a month, on credit.

I'd love to see Biden (or Obama, though he wasn't my first choice) debate McCain on foreign policy, supporting the troops, taxes, etc. McCain still thinks that Iran trains Sunnis and Al Queda. And you know how McCain and the current admin are on privacy: none for anyone but their own selves (i.e. Rove, Libby, Cheney, Meyers, Gonzales, etc.)...more classified documents than all other admins combined, and years worth of "lost" e-mails, executive priviledge....This country is falling apart, and old John's voted with Bush 95% of the time. There's your risky vote, most unpopular president in the history of polling, cloned. :wink:

[Skud]

I know that lobbyists control the politicians on both sides of the aisle, and very few, if any, of them actually give a hoot about any of us...so it is quite silly to argue on the behalf of one or another. We all love our country, but pay for the mistakes of our "leaders". Very sad. :|

[DougBob]

What's really sad is noone that runs for office will be an honest man and say what they think. That's why we have to pick the lesser of the two evils.

That's it, I'm writing in Cain for Pres. :2thumbs:
I wanna be SOD when you win Cain :nasty:

[LIMEY]

While I have a ton of respect for Senator McCain and would have voted for him in 2000 I cannot in clear conscience vote for him now.


You should since Obama will mean bye bye to your guns Mapes!

[Skud]

You should since Obama will mean bye bye to your guns Mapes!

They can't take the guns we have, but we are on course to lose even more jobs if we keep up the "trickle down" economics. Gun's no good if you can't afford to shoot it. I spent my $300 tax rebate way back in 2000. :roll:

[LIMEY]

They can't take the guns we have, but we are on course to lose even more jobs if we keep up the "trickle down" economics. Gun's no good if you can't afford to shoot it. I spent my $300 tax rebate way back in 2000. :roll:

Wrong, they can and will take guns if they so decide, they will have an amnesty where you can turn them in and after that you will be a criminal.

The economic problems are not due solely to this administration, although they certainly are not blameless, the economic problem are global and will get worse before they get better.

Obama's solution is more taxes, well you just cant tax yourself out of recession, as Winston Churchill once said "We contend that for a nation to try to tax itself into prosperity is like a man standing in a bucket and trying to lift himself up by the handle." If you think trickle down economics was a bad chapter, it is only the predecessor to a worse chapter called Obamanomics.

If your complaining about the $300 you were given back what will you do about the hundreds they will take away, rejoice?

[Duke{CLR}]

It all comes down to BIG government and Obamas answerer for everything is another government program. Obama is for change. He will change the first amendment, the second amendment, your taxes and the size of government.

No Thanks, I'll will hold my nose and Vote for McCain.

[LIMEY]

It all comes down to BIG government and Obamas answerer for everything is another government program. Obama is for change. He will change the first amendment, the second amendment, your taxes and the size of government.

No Thanks, I'll will hold my nose and Vote for McCain.

He will also take all your change with his new tax plans:|

[Skud]

He will also take all your change with his new tax plans:|


Can't scare me into believing those talking points. I won't try to change anyone who still believes them, either...there's still 26% who support Bush, with nothing positive "accomplished" in 8 years...Exxon CEOs for sure...Haliburton...the guys who got the tax cuts, I thought, maybe. I can see the trajectory of the place from that brief history.

Anyway, I'll drop the thread. As I've said, no use fighting for fellows who couldn't care less about us. Whoever gets elected, I hope he does a better job running the place...right now it's reminding me of the old Soviet Union when it broke its back on Afghanistan. :sad: Thanks for the healthy discourse!

[Duke{CLR}]

Skud nobody's trying to scare you with talking points but I do see you used a few in your first paragraph. The fact is that Obama is a big government guy and the bigger the government the worse it is for individuals. I'm fairly certain the the tax cuts go down to the 44K income level. Its not just the rich who got the tax breaks its everyone who pays taxes.

What exactly reminds you of the Soviet Union? Have you been there?

[K PhaNTOM]

8)

[LIMEY]

Can't scare me into believing those talking points. I won't try to change anyone who still believes them, either...there's still 26% who support Bush, with nothing positive "accomplished" in 8 years...Exxon CEOs for sure...Haliburton...the guys who got the tax cuts, I thought, maybe. I can see the trajectory of the place from that brief history.

Anyway, I'll drop the thread. As I've said, no use fighting for fellows who couldn't care less about us. Whoever gets elected, I hope he does a better job running the place...right now it's reminding me of the old Soviet Union when it broke its back on Afghanistan. :sad: Thanks for the healthy discourse!

Talk about talking points! I do not see any correlation between this great country and the former Soviet Union, please enlighten me? :?

[mapes]

Ok heres my problems with some of the statements and also why I really don't like the Republicans

First and foremost Obama is not going to take my gun because it is a bolt action rifle. Just not going to happen. Yes I am a gun owner however I do favor some gun control. Granted two of the bills in the CA state senate are ridiculous(serialized ammo and biometric guns). I am in favor felons, people with restraining orders and people with psychiatric problems not getting guns. I am ok with a 10 day cool down. Although it is silly when you own a .30 caliber sniper weapon and are trying to buy .17 caliber plinker and you have to wait. Thats kinda of a administrative problem though

My probs with McCain are many fold. Courting the religious right. Reversal of vote on torture (him of all people). Holding the party line.

My problems with the Republicans are many. Trashing the Constitution. Policy makers in power that have financial ties to corporations that profit from those policy decisions....for example Rice with on the board of directors of Exxon (or Chevron it's one or the other). Rumsfiield and Cheney with military contractors. The out and out non accountability for anything simply by saying "I cannot remember".

The whole tax rebate was such BS. If you want a history lesson on that crap I refer you to the phrase "Bread and Games" You should look it up under "Fall of Roman Empire".

This whole Sub Prime crap falls under the Republican cry of "De-Regulation". Because no one regulated that industry we are were we are now. Oh I like the no taxes crap and no welfare cries are also staples of the Rep party but, When it comes to some wall street companies about to fold what happens...a freaking government subsidy....and people freak out about trying to get health care to the common Joe.... I just can't deal with it.

[K PhaNTOM]

I really don't like the Republicans

:disgust: :wave2: We still love you liberals :wink:

[LIMEY]

Ok heres my problems with some of the statements and also why I really don't like the Republicans

First and foremost Obama is not going to take my gun because it is a bolt action rifle. Just not going to happen. Yes I am a gun owner however I do favor some gun control. Granted two of the bills in the CA state senate are ridiculous(serialized ammo and biometric guns). I am in favor felons, people with restraining orders and people with psychiatric problems not getting guns. I am ok with a 10 day cool down. Although it is silly when you own a .30 caliber sniper weapon and are trying to buy .17 caliber plinker and you have to wait. Thats kinda of a administrative problem though

My probs with McCain are many fold. Courting the religious right. Reversal of vote on torture (him of all people). Holding the party line.

My problems with the Republicans are many. Trashing the Constitution. Policy makers in power that have financial ties to corporations that profit from those policy decisions....for example Rice with on the board of directors of Exxon (or Chevron it's one or the other). Rumsfiield and Cheney with military contractors. The out and out non accountability for anything simply by saying "I cannot remember".

The whole tax rebate was such BS. If you want a history lesson on that crap I refer you to the phrase "Bread and Games" You should look it up under "Fall of Roman Empire".

This whole Sub Prime crap falls under the Republican cry of "De-Regulation". Because no one regulated that industry we are were we are now. Oh I like the no taxes crap and no welfare cries are also staples of the Rep party but, When it comes to some wall street companies about to fold what happens...a freaking government subsidy....and people freak out about trying to get health care to the common Joe.... I just can't deal with it.

FYI Mapes, the Democrats have controlled the House and the Senate for some time now and all the things your complaining about have happened with their complicit cooperation.

You want to talk about corporate and special interest connections, take a look at Nancy Pelosi and her family ties and worse still Barbara Boxster and her family ties, the whole system is corrupt, both sides of the isle, you show me an honest polition in Washington and I will show you a complete work of fiction.

Granted I think McCain is an abortion of a candidate, as I have said before he is a slightly more feminine version of Hillary.

However in the current era of better of two evils elections (Bush1 vs Clinton, Clinton vs Dole, Gore vs Bush2 and Bush 2 vs Kerry) McCain looks great next to Barack Obama the Manchurian Candidate, a creation of the media! His ties to guys like Bill Ayres and the Rev. Jeramiah Wright are indicative of who he is and I do not want him running the most power country on Earth further into the ground. :2cents:

[K PhaNTOM]

as I have said before he is a slightly more feminine version of Hillary.

I know this is political, but I just cannot stop laughing at this! :twisted:

[Skud]

Skud nobody's trying to scare you with talking points but I do see you used a few in your first paragraph. The fact is that Obama is a big government guy and the bigger the government the worse it is for individuals. I'm fairly certain the the tax cuts go down to the 44K income level. Its not just the rich who got the tax breaks its everyone who pays taxes.

What exactly reminds you of the Soviet Union? Have you been there?

What reminds me of them was they overstretched their military and broke their bank when they were fighting in Afghanistan, weakened to a point that it couldn't hold itself together. We are spending billions a month on two fronts with no increase in revenue, sounds like bad business to me... That's all. Here's an idea of what it's costing us all (and, as I've said, I'll drop this thread):

http://www.nationalpriorities.org/costofwar_home

[mapes]

FYI Mapes, the Democrats have controlled the House and the Senate for some time now and all the things your complaining about have happened with their complicit cooperation.

Yes I can certainly see that point, that many Democrats were complicit. However whenever any bill that came through both houses came before the president he vetoed it. As an example SCHIP. Congress had a majority to send laws for signing to the Pres but, not enough to override his veto.


You want to talk about corporate and special interest connections, take a look at Nancy Pelosi and her family ties and worse still Barbara Boxster and her family ties, the whole system is corrupt, both sides of the isle, you show me an honest polition in Washington and I will show you a complete work of fiction.


Unfortunately yes I agree with you.


Granted I think McCain is an abortion of a candidate, as I have said before he is a slightly more feminine version of Hillary.


As an aside did anyone see The Daily Show when they showed McCain at Sturgis. McCain yells out "Let me hear the sound of freedom" (cue roaring Harly's). John Stewart interrupts and is like "Really the sound of idling motorcycles is the sound of freedom? To me it's the sound of our money being funneled to Saudi Arabia". Totally classic.


However in the current era of better of two evils elections (Bush1 vs Clinton, Clinton vs Dole, Gore vs Bush2 and Bush 2 vs Kerry) McCain looks great next to Barack Obama the Manchurian Candidate, a creation of the media! His ties to guys like Bill Ayres and the Rev. Jeramiah Wright are indicative of who he is and I do not want him running the most power country on Earth further into the ground. :2cents:

McCain was endorsed by some preacher who said that 911 was gods wrath on America and McCain did not distance himself from said preacher. So both candidates are backed and backed whacko's. I'd just like to see as Bush said a "Democrat Congress" maybe actually get some decent laws passed.

[LIMEY]

Yes I can certainly see that point, that many Democrats were complicit. However whenever any bill that came through both houses came before the president he vetoed it. As an example SCHIP. Congress had a majority to send laws for signing to the Pres but, not enough to override his veto.



Unfortunately yes I agree with you.



As an aside did anyone see The Daily Show when they showed McCain at Sturgis. McCain yells out "Let me hear the sound of freedom" (cue roaring Harly's). John Stewart interrupts and is like "Really the sound of idling motorcycles is the sound of freedom? To me it's the sound of our money being funneled to Saudi Arabia". Totally classic.



McCain was endorsed by some preacher who said that 911 was gods wrath on America and McCain did not distance himself from said preacher. So both candidates are backed and backed whacko's. I'd just like to see as Bush said a "Democrat Congress" maybe actually get some decent laws passed.

This is why I like Mapes, he is a reasonable democrat!:luvu:

[Trooper110]

I'm a reasonable Democrat...I even lean right on a bunch of issues. This election I think that Obama is the lesser of two evils for what's available. There may be better candidates out there but with the current system in the US, the only person who will be elected is either democrat or republican. My opinions could change before the election, as the post originally stated, I really don't like Biden, so we'll see.

[Thrashdragon]

A senior McCain official has just told major new outlets that Alaska governor Sarah Palin is the VP pick. IMHO this puts the nail in the coffin for Obama. A female on McCain's ticket is going to draw all the crazy HAB's (Hillary Attack B****es) away from the Democratic ticket even more so than their hatred of Obama did.

[Duke{CLR}]

A senior McCain official has just told major new outlets that Alaska governor Sarah Palin is the VP pick. IMHO this puts the nail in the coffin for Obama. A female on McCain's ticket is going to draw all the crazy HAB's (Hillary Attack B****es) away from the Democratic ticket even more so than their hatred of Obama did.

I's official. For the first time I am excited about voting for McCain. I think she is the best of all four of the candidates. :2thumbs:

[Cal]

I agree with you Duke, I was wishy-washy before, but I like the fact that McCain picked Palin. If he had picked Romney, I probably would have abstained or voted for a write-in candidate

She's also got a pretty clean record on the whole. I'll be interested to see how she handles Biden in the debates. Because she's relatively unknown, she's going to be underestimated...but she won't be as easy to tear apart as Romney would have been.

on the whole, I'm excited to see the head to head debates. I just hope the major networks don't ask stupid questions.

[Duke{CLR}]

Whats kind of funny is that Biden represents to old and Palin represents the new. That kind of throws a wrench in the whole "Change" message of Obama.

[BenKenobi]

Amen to that.

While I'll probably vote for McCain, its insulting how dumbed-down this election has been. I try and avoid the tv ads, but its difficult to escape the news articles about them.

Biden seems to be a smart guy along foreign policy lines, but if he's pro-RIAA that means hes probably regressive in a lot of other tech areas (probably pro-monthly bandwidth caps, too).

On a less serious note, if McCain picks Sarah Palin as VP, he'll be able to counter Obama's 'young and attractive' appeal.

Sarah Palin - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarah_Palin)

she's attractive for a politician, heh.

What a call mate

[K PhaNTOM]

Anyone explain to me why McCain chose HER? Does he want to lose on purpose? What kind of republican votes for a woman as VP? OMG? I went :o when I heard about his choice!

[Skud]

Anyone explain to me why McCain chose HER? Does he want to lose on purpose? What kind of republican votes for a woman as VP? OMG? I went :o when I heard about his choice!

One is to get the conservative vote, because he won't get it alone. The other is it's time for a new wifey, again. :nasty:

[BenKenobi]

She's a small l libertarian... which is pretty attractive...

[juneau]

From an outsiders POV Barrack is getting all the attention. Probably due to the fact that he could be your first none white male President. I don't know the fine print on all these candidates but the US really needs some change of perspective and a black president would bring that.

[Duke{CLR}]

Juneau, What would change the perspective? The fact that he is black or the fact the he is Liberal?

I'm an issues voter and race is not a factor. Obamma is a liberal and his answer for everything is another government program. Just about everything the government takes over turns out to be far less then what was promised for a whole lot more money.

McCain is a middle of the road republican his views on domestic policy are not that great IMO. Palin makes it easier to pull the lever for McCain. If Obamma wins it with majorities in the house and senate they will be responsible for all that goes on and in four more years we will be in need for a new change and it's good to know that there are unashamed conservatives out there.

[DougBob]

For one thing don't under estimate what McCain did by making this choice. First he's going to get some of the votes Obama lost for not picking Hillary and second it's a good pick and is a better choice than Obama if she were the presidential runner. So this was really the smartest thing McCain has done the whole time. Don't let the sex of the running mate determine your choice though, research her background and see if you like what you see, then make it.

[Skud]

Juneau, What would change the perspective? The fact that he is black or the fact the he is Liberal?

I'm an issues voter and race is not a factor. Obamma is a liberal and his answer for everything is another government program. Just about everything the government takes over turns out to be far less then what was promised for a whole lot more money.

McCain is a middle of the road republican his views on domestic policy are not that great IMO. Palin makes it easier to pull the lever for McCain. If Obamma wins it with majorities in the house and senate they will be responsible for all that goes on and in four more years we will be in need for a new change and it's good to know that there are unashamed conservatives out there.

Are there any "conservatives" out there? The last three admins that were so-called conservatives ran up our three record deficits...putting guys like Mike (heck of a job) Brown (FEMA...priviously a horse trader) in charge of government agencies...political favorites rather than qualified candidates. I don't think that the government agencies are much more wasteful than Blackwater and Haliburton have been, overcharging the government on most things and even getting paid for unfinished work.

That said, we'll get screwed either way. If there were truly someone in the middle, pro-gun and anti welfare like the Republicans, and pro labor/environment/education like the dems, it would be nice. Oh, they'd also have to be able to resist the influence of the lobbyists: fat chance. :|

[juneau]

Juneau, What would change the perspective? The fact that he is black or the fact the he is Liberal?

I'm an issues voter and race is not a factor. Obamma is a liberal and his answer for everything is another government program. Just about everything the government takes over turns out to be far less then what was promised for a whole lot more money.

McCain is a middle of the road republican his views on domestic policy are not that great IMO. Palin makes it easier to pull the lever for McCain. If Obamma wins it with majorities in the house and senate they will be responsible for all that goes on and in four more years we will be in need for a new change and it's good to know that there are unashamed conservatives out there.

The fact that he's black. No offence to you guys but a decent sized proportion of the US population wouldn't vote for a guy because of the colour of his skin and that is really, really sad. :(

Like i said, i don't know the ins and outs of each candidate, but a black President could be a step forward for your country, in the long run.

[Duke{CLR}]

The fact that he's black. No offence to you guys but a decent sized proportion of the US population wouldn't vote for a guy because of the colour of his skin and that is really, really sad. :(

Like i said, i don't know the ins and outs of each candidate, but a black President could be a step forward for your country, in the long run.

What do you mean by a decent sized portion of the population? Are there some facts to back this up or is this just a stereotype? I know if Obamma looses the liberals will try to paint it as a racist thing because it couldn't possibly be that his ideas are flawed. And how would a black president make it better for the country? Is our secretary of state not enough?

[juneau]

What do you mean by a decent sized portion of the population? Are there some facts to back this up or is this just a stereotype? I know if Obamma looses the liberals will try to paint it as a racist thing because it couldn't possibly be that his ideas are flawed. And how would a black president make it better for the country? Is our secretary of state not enough?

Taken to PM just in case. :)

Really shouldn't have used the word 'decent' lol. What a mix up.

[Duke{CLR}]

I find the stereotype a lot right here in the states. I fly all over the place and I talk to the ramp workers, the van drivers and a lot of the people I meet and they really aren't all that racist. Some of my acquaintances in Vermont are quite shocked that there isn't a cross burning on every corner of every southern state.

[Skud]

I find the stereotype a lot right here in the states. I fly all over the place and I talk to the ramp workers, the van drivers and a lot of the people I meet and they really aren't all that racist. Some of my acquaintances in Vermont are quite shocked that there isn't a cross burning on every corner of every southern state.

Driving a city bus, I see everyone. I won't say much about stereotypes, because it's a flashpoint for so many. I will say that throughout the election I heard many stereotypes about the people of Virginia and southern states because 75% of the white voters voted for Hillary, and the liberals joked about the voters not wearing shoes, having missing teeth, or marrying their cousins...but nothing was said when 96% of the black voters voted for Obama, because if they said that race played a part it would be deemed racist...when the 96% is scientifically more significant than the 75%.

So, that's the double standard that no one bothers to bring up, along with many others. Racism goes both ways...and until everyone admits that it won't go away...and there can be no equal rights. :sad:

[Trooper110]

Cross burnings only happen in Pennsylvania now :D I still like Obama better than McCain even if Biden is starting to look really really bad to me. I'm going to have to research more on Palin before I decide if I like her politics or not, I really know nothing about her at all. And of course watch the debates and whatnot. I've pretty much taken to ignored any advertising and for the most part the "official" information given out. I like to see what they have done, and look at what/how they've voted on issues to get a real picture.

[Skud]

Cross burnings only happen in Pennsylvania now :D I still like Obama better than McCain even if Biden is starting to look really really bad to me. I'm going to have to research more on Palin before I decide if I like her politics or not, I really know nothing about her at all. And of course watch the debates and whatnot. I've pretty much taken to ignored any advertising and for the most part the "official" information given out. I like to see what they have done, and look at what/how they've voted on issues to get a real picture.


Well, I hope the debates actually have some difficult/meaty questions, so that those who take the time to watch and who really do want to learn about the candidates can learn something significant about them. I actually like Biden better than Obama, and both better than McCain...but know that all three have their weak points. I do wish someone besides the elites could be elected president in this democracy.

[Duke{CLR}]

Cross burnings only happen in Pennsylvania now :D I still like Obama better than McCain even if Biden is starting to look really really bad to me. I'm going to have to research more on Palin before I decide if I like her politics or not, I really know nothing about her at all. And of course watch the debates and whatnot. I've pretty much taken to ignored any advertising and for the most part the "official" information given out. I like to see what they have done, and look at what/how they've voted on issues to get a real picture.

So you say that you like to see what they have done so I'll ask what has Obamma done to put him before McCain on you list?

[Apache Warrior]

You will generally find less racism in the Southern States.
Apache

[LIMEY]

So you say that you like to see what they have done so I'll ask what has Obamma done to put him before McCain on you list?


Heres a couple of Obama tidbits from the Washington Post:

Barack Obama has missed 290 votes (45.5%) during the current Congress.

Barack Obama has voted with a majority of his Democratic colleagues 96.0% of the time during the current Congress. This percentage does not include votes in which Obama did not vote.

However McCain is worse on missed votes:

John McCain has missed 407 votes (63.8%) during the current Congress.

but a little better on crossing party lines:

John McCain has voted with a majority of his Republican colleagues 88.3% of the time during the current Congress. This percentage does not include votes in which McCain did not vote.

In reality this confirms two things for me, Obama is way way left of center and if your a senator running for the presidency you are not doing your job! People running for president should have to resign their current position so the people they are there to represent are getting that representation.

Unless we have a huge sentiment shift in the next few weeks I think Obama wins in a landslide and the Dems will cause major harm to the country for four years. It will work as a reset and make alot of people realize that things are not that bad now.

[DougBob]

You will generally find less racism in the Southern States.
Apache

:shock::shock::shock:

[rusty99]

You will generally find less racism in the Southern States.
Apache

this has been my experience, and I've lived in Mississippi and Texas.

[Road_Ratt]

Unless we have a huge sentiment shift in the next few weeks I think Obama wins in a landslide and the Dems will cause major harm to the country for four years. It will work as a reset and make alot of people realize that things are not that bad now.

Our current president is being compared to Jimmy Carter, though I think that's an insult to Jimmy. The harm has already been done to this country by the current administration for the last 8 years. A failed war in Iraq that hasn't made our country any safer, plus a failed war on terror that hasn't made us any safer either. Gas prices are through the roof, so are food prices. Things can't get much worse than they already are. And yet somehow you are saying that an Obama presidency will make us long for the days of G.W. ?!?!? :scratch:

I'm not saying that Obama will make a great president, in fact I don't like the thought of Obama or McCain becoming our next president, but I just can't buy into this train of thought.

[Trooper110]

Well, I certainly don't like the current administration. I voted against Bush in both of the past elections, I didn't think he was a good choice then, I don't think he is now. Admittedly I wasn't a huge supporter of Kerry or Gore for that matter, but I thought they'd do a better job running the country. McCain is a heck of a lot smarter than Bush. I think he'd do a better job than Bush. I don't like his policies on Iraq though. I didn't think we should have gone in in the first place, I support the troops, not the war. I don't like McCain's views on Iraq. Not a big fan of his economic plans either. I'm pro-choice which McCain is not, and Palin definitely is not. I support firearms rights though, which makes me lean to the right. I don't like McCain's or Biden's policies and views on technology, and the internet specifically. Obama tends to agree more with what my views are, although I'm not in total agreement, I haven't read anything about Palin's views there. McCain worries me with his age, and what would happen if Palin were required to take over...she has less experience than Obama does. On the other hand, there's still a lot of bigots in the US, and Obama probably has the highest chance of a well put together assassination plot, and Biden kind of scares me with things he's said, and ways he's voted. Honestly, I'm not super happy with either ticket right now. However in this country, voting anything other than Dem or Republican is really a losing proposition. So as the debates come up and I read more, I'm going to make a decision based on who I think is going to hurt the country the least over the next 4 years.

[Duke{CLR}]

Rod Ratt come on, Jimmy Carter? You must be joking. If you want to see things like Jimmy Carter wait and see what happens to the interest rates for your mortgage if Obama gets in.

Although getting into Iraq was a mistake I don't think it's failed. Many portions are being put under Iraqi control. I'm fairly sure that a large one was just given over this week. It sucks to e there but I don't think its a failure.

The war on terror has failed? I can tell from personal experience that we are safer then before 9/11 just in the changes in the airline industry. I wonder how Obama supporting driver licenses for illegal immigrants would fit in this safety area.

You may not long for GW after Obama, Pelosi and Reid get full control of everything but people will want a change. The best part of Jimmy Carter was that after he left we had Regan. :2thumbs:

[Skud]

Rod Ratt come on, Jimmy Carter? You must be joking. If you want to see things like Jimmy Carter wait and see what happens to the interest rates for your mortgage if Obama gets in.

Although getting into Iraq was a mistake I don't think it's failed. Many portions are being put under Iraqi control. I'm fairly sure that a large one was just given over this week. It sucks to e there but I don't think its a failure.

The war on terror has failed? I can tell from personal experience that we are safer then before 9/11 just in the changes in the airline industry. I wonder how Obama supporting driver licenses for illegal immigrants would fit in this safety area.

You may not long for GW after Obama, Pelosi and Reid get full control of everything but people will want a change. The best part of Jimmy Carter was that after he left we had Regan. :2thumbs:


We could have put doors on planes and hired enough marshals to be on all the planes for the cost of the war, and kept up on bridge and road repair, and education. Our being over there is what created 9-11, not the whole "freedom haters" thing. :D They didn't attack Canada!

There used to be a security assessment report put out by the State Department, which kept track of terrorist attacks around the world. After the Iraq invasion, terrorists attacks doubled. The next year they doubled again. The year after that Condi Rice put the kabosh on the Terror Assessment report. I'm guessing because it just wasn't looking too good.

Of course Iraq is calmer under marshal law. Once our troops leave, the three sides will tear each other up. The first Bush knew what would happen if we took out Saddam, so he didn't do it. In the meantime, we are paying for the security in a country until it gets over its thousand year differences. That's McCain for you...Bush #3.

[Road_Ratt]

Road Ratt come on, Jimmy Carter? You must be joking.

Jimmy Carter's approval ratings when he left office was 34%, G.W.'s rating is currently hovering around 30%. No joke.

Although getting into Iraq was a mistake I don't think it's failed. Many portions are being put under Iraqi control. I'm fairly sure that a large one was just given over this week. It sucks to e there but I don't think its a failure.

It's certainly not a success and imo hasn't made our country nor the world a safer place to live in.

The war on terror has failed? I can tell from personal experience that we are safer then before 9/11 just in the changes in the airline industry.

Sure the airlines have tightened up their security but that isn't a very good yardstick to measure our security from terrorism here in the US or abroad.

You may not long for GW after Obama, Pelosi and Reid get full control of everything but people will want a change.

That's just pure speculation on your part with no basis in fact. Also, you seem to be missing the fact that people want change now... and that's with G.W. running things.

The best part of Jimmy Carter was that after he left we had Regan. :2thumbs:

You forget Billy Beer! :razz:

[Duke{CLR}]

GW was elected twice and has had to make some unpopular decisions. He was also able to tick off many in his party with his Immigration reform which doesn't help out much. I not a big fan of Bush but I don't hate him and I'll give credit were I think credit is due.

Time will tell on Iraq. I think if it were going badly we would be hearing a lot more about it. The good news does not sell and doesn't fit the agenda of the mainstream media.

If tighter security isn't a yardstick to measure the war on terror then what would you use? The fact is that we have not been attacked again so far so good. There have been several plots broke up by intelligence. Now the different law enforcement agencies can share information to help prevent attacks. It's more then just airlines tightening he security. Liberal policies toward immigration and border security would make us much less safer in the long run.

If people only wanted change then why isn't Obama running away with in the poles? Especially with the media drooling over him? Don't get me wrong people want change but that doesn't mean they want a big bloated tax and spend government. Talk about approval ratings? isn't congress in the single digits?

There was one good thing about Jimmy Carter. He signed a law that made it legal at the federal level to brew your own beer. Now I read this in a beer brewing book so i'm not too sure on the details.

[Road_Ratt]

GW was elected twice and has had to make some unpopular decisions. He was also able to tick off many in his party with his Immigration reform which doesn't help out much. I not a big fan of Bush but I don't hate him and I'll give credit were I think credit is due.


Unpopular choices aren't going to get you to the level his ratings are at currently, being bad at your job will though. I'm not a hater, you could put me in the bush basher group though but with good reason. This guy is the worst president in my lifetime, talk about longer for the days, I'd much rather go back to Clinton or even Bush Sr. they were both much better than G.W. by far, not that they were great presidents themselves they both had their flaws but they were better.

Time will tell on Iraq. I think if it were going badly we would be hearing a lot more about it. The good news does not sell and doesn't fit the agenda of the mainstream media.

Iraq may be calmer but we (the US) and the world are no safer for having fought the war, to me that equals failure.

If tighter security isn't a yardstick to measure the war on terror then what would you use? The fact is that we have not been attacked again so far so good.

Lol, if you want to look at it that way then we were also safer before 9/11 because we'd never been hit. Seriously how many times has this happened to the US? Can I say that it's a failure if we get hit again? How is the forgotten war in Afghanistan going? Are we any closer to winning and bringing our troops home? There's a lot more to the war on terror than have they attacked us again.

Liberal policies toward immigration and border security would make us much less safer in the long run.

Pure speculation on your part and has no basis in fact.

If people only wanted change then why isn't Obama running away with in the poles? Talk about approval ratings? isn't congress in the single digits?

Yes they are and deservedly so, they are doing a horrible job. I think their approval rating along with Obamas lack of experience has people worried. Personally I'm worried about both presidential candidates. Especially after McCain attacked Obama for his lack of qualifications for the presidency then goes out and chooses a vp running mate who has the very same issues, quite ironic. If McCain happens to die in office (of natural causes), which is a very real worry given his age, then our country will be left in the hands of an unqualified noob. And if you've been reading up on her beliefs is one scary far rightwing nut.