This is just awesome

[mapes]

http://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2007/09/apec_conference.html
Yesterday, a TV comedy team succeeded in driving a fake motorcade with Canadian flags right through all the security barriers and weren't stopped until right outside President Bush's hotel. Inside their motorcade was someone dressed up as Osama Bin Laden.

[Thrashdragon]

Oooh...little embarassing for the security guys. Heads are gonna roll for this one.

I'm looking forward to the day a news team gets shot for sneaking guns and bombs on planes to highlight bad airport security, etc. Now that will be funny.

[LIMEY]

As the Osama guy stepped out a sniper team asked for permission to drop him. Now that would have been comedy....

[Trooper110]

Yeah, I'd like to see a news team get shot for pulling some stupid prank they think is funny to highlight bad security :D

[mapes]

Your all missing the point of this exercise. The point is obnoxious security that is actually NOT security is bad.

The fact that because of this APEC meeting they basically shut down Sydney and they gave the police broad search and seizure rights. So in summary the cost of this "security" is staggering

1. Economically (shutting down the largest city in the country)
2. Loss of personal freedoms (although temporarily)

The cost is made that much more ridiculous when shown it did nothing to prevent someone from just waltzing in. I mean hell they could had a fertilizer bomb and leveled that hotel.

So I'm all for stopping terrorists and even for more security. However before I sign my rights away I wanna see that it actually helps

[Thrashdragon]

Oh, I get the point of it. I think everyone knows at this point that all the obvious security measures are pointless and useless. Regular police officers have absolutely no idea how to handle that type of situation, it's not what they are trained for. I just don't think that news or comedy shows going out of their way to make it news is helping the situation at all. I would imagine the "red zone" where they were finally stopped is where the US Secret Service was handling security. They don't play around.

That car could've gotten just as far against good security unless they had physical barricades in place...just floor it and go. The one thing all security personnel fear is an intelligent attacker that is willing to die. You cannot stop that. Luckily most of the smart ones aren't all that willing to go meet Allah just yet.

They went way overboard in shutting down all of Sydney, though. At least they were smart enough to keep protestors away so the city didn't get trashed.

[mapes]

Oh, I get the point of it. I think everyone knows at this point that all the obvious security measures are pointless and useless. Regular police officers have absolutely no idea how to handle that type of situation, it's not what they are trained for. I just don't think that news or comedy shows going out of their way to make it news is helping the situation at all. I would imagine the "red zone" where they were finally stopped is where the US Secret Service was handling security. They don't play around.

That car could've gotten just as far against good security unless they had physical barricades in place...just floor it and go. The one thing all security personnel fear is an intelligent attacker that is willing to die. You cannot stop that. Luckily most of the smart ones aren't all that willing to go meet Allah just yet.

They went way overboard in shutting down all of Sydney, though. At least they were smart enough to keep protestors away so the city didn't get trashed.

Actually the did have check points and the were waved right through. As for peeps showing the fallacy of this "security". How else do you know if something works or not.

In the network security world people actually hire pentration testers to se if they're computer security is actually working. The same should hold true for real world security. Be it internal audit or comedians. Security through obscurity is no security at all.

[Thrashdragon]

You're right, but when people keep voting the same idiots in charge of these decisions into office, pointing out the problems doesn't help anything, it just encourages the baddies and gets some low level flunkies fired to appease the masses.

Ideally people would stand up and demand that their money stop being wasted, but...

[TheSilentAssassin]

As the Osama guy stepped out a sniper team asked for permission to drop him. Now that would have been comedy....

+1

[mapes]

You're right, but when people keep voting the same idiots in charge of these decisions into office, pointing out the problems doesn't help anything, it just encourages the baddies and gets some low level flunkies fired to appease the masses.

Ideally people would stand up and demand that their money stop being wasted, but...


the problem is security theater or cover your ass security like having to take off your shoes at an airport. Terrorists arn't going to hide bombs in they're shoes anymore. In reality since 911 the only two things that make us safer during air travel are

1. locking the cockpits door and
2. The willingness of other passengers to fight down terrorists.

[TheSilentAssassin]

You're right, but when people keep voting the same idiots in charge of these decisions into office, pointing out the problems doesn't help anything, it just encourages the baddies and gets some low level flunkies fired to appease the masses.

Ideally people would stand up and demand that their money stop being wasted, but...


the problem is security theater or cover your ass security like having to take off your shoes at an airport. Terrorists arn't going to hide bombs in they're shoes anymore. In reality since 911 the only two things that make us safer during air travel are

1. locking the cockpits door and
2. The willingness of other passengers to fight down terrorists.

Most airlines now have armed Air Marshalls on EVERY flight

[mapes]

You're right, but when people keep voting the same idiots in charge of these decisions into office, pointing out the problems doesn't help anything, it just encourages the baddies and gets some low level flunkies fired to appease the masses.

Ideally people would stand up and demand that their money stop being wasted, but...


the problem is security theater or cover your ass security like having to take off your shoes at an airport. Terrorists arn't going to hide bombs in they're shoes anymore. In reality since 911 the only two things that make us safer during air travel are

1. locking the cockpits door and
2. The willingness of other passengers to fight down terrorists.

Most airlines now have armed Air Marshalls on EVERY flight

Every flight really?

[mapes]

Actually your wrong

Per the APSA

But, in the end, the greatest obstacle to the robustness of the air marshal program is simply the size of the system they are sworn to protect. The current air marshal force, 2200 officers working in teams, protects only 5- 10% of daily flights, if that. Put another way, if Al Qaeda attacks 10 airliners tomorrow, 9 of those airliners will not have marshals aboard.


I stick by my earlier assessment

[TheSilentAssassin]

Actually your wrong

Per the APSA

But, in the end, the greatest obstacle to the robustness of the air marshal program is simply the size of the system they are sworn to protect. The current air marshal force, 2200 officers working in teams, protects only 5- 10% of daily flights, if that. Put another way, if Al Qaeda attacks 10 airliners tomorrow, 9 of those airliners will not have marshals aboard.


I stick by my earlier assessment

You are probably right...But I do know for a fact that EVERY single American Airlines flight DOES have an Armed Air Marshall. My mom is a 28 year veteran flight attendant for AA.

[mapes]

Not to be a stickler but I don't think it's the Air Marshalls on the AA flights. I think AA has armed they're pilots....god for them I say.

[Dead_And_Gone]

You have to understand that the security measures were NOT organized by the politial entities, but by the trained security team. Whether it was the Secret Service, or local police working with them, it takes compromises in today's society.

In 3rd world countries, they are a bit less careful of harming innocent civilians. In the political West, harming an innocent can get you booted from office, even if it was a mistake by your security team.

Why do you think most Pre-Terrorist times had guards at embassy's that had unloaded weapons. They were afraid of an "Incident", and thus the guards were just window dressing. After all, no Axis power would do something to cause a political frap with their Alliance foes. After several embassies were wiped out, those attitudes changed.

Sidney, they aren't used to Real Terrorist threats, hence letting an unchecked vehicle blow through the checkpoints. There just isn't or wasn't any need for anti-terrorist training there. I'm sure they will revamp their training after this Foo-Paw.

Most security is focused on international or cross country flights. You Won't have a marshal on a puddle jumper flight for instance.

Even with KNOWN threats from certain ethic/geographical/political areas, we are handcuffed into NOT profiling. So an 80 year old grandmother was strip searched, instead of the 20yr old Arabic in concealing robes that was coming in on a Student Visa. :? Lawsuits galore because we "Picked" on someone, or made them take off their shawls.

I'm sorry, this ISN'T a predominant muslim country. Yet... We don't or shouldn't make allowances for other groups, countries, feelings, beliefs or customs when it concerns security. You can have a Muslim prayer group in our High Schools, but not a Protestent Prayer group. How Screwed is that? We might "Offend" someone.

So give the security guys and gals a little slack. They have "Can't fire" until fired at rules, can't profile, can't do this or that. It only changes when a group of soldiers or security agents or political figures are blown to little bitty pieces. Then the SAME people who totally handcuffed the security wants people's heads, or wants Massive "Changes" in a total knee jerk political statement. All Politics, All the time.

[TheSilentAssassin]

Not to be a stickler but I don't think it's the Air Marshalls on the AA flights. I think AA has armed they're pilots....god for them I say.

Absolutely Not. They agreed not to do this. My mom is one of the most seasoned and veteran flight attendants in th company. She knows how thing work.

[mapes]

Well why would sky marshalls completely cover AA and no other airlines?? makes me curious.