WAR-Primeval SE Beta3 - Need some feedback

[Nomadicus]

I am enhancing Primeval -- and due to the latest patch I will replace the existing Primeval with Primeval_SE (<== temporary name).
If interested, I would like feedback to this Beta3.
http://utforums.epicgames.com/showthread.php?t=603523
Feel free to post at Epic or here.
Thanks for the support!
Enjoy,
Nomadicus

[cross posted at Pinky's, Slaughters, T5K, and ZeroFrag]

[Slaughter]

Loaded up and we'll be playing it tonight!

[Nomadicus]

Thanks for setting up this beta version of prime. It was a lot of fun testing it with everyone!

[Slaughter]

I updated Vote and added the other link setups. Sorry I didn't have those in last Friday.

[Nomadicus]

beta4 is out.

Includes a 5 node setup with Darkwalkers called INSANITY.

[Slaughter]

We will be testing beta 4 on Friday night. CLRs r welcome.

[Grisu]

IP / Time???

[Slaughter]

Sorry I missed your post. I didn't want to post server info or IP out of respect for Cain's policies (I assumed most CLRs could find it in the server browser).

We are trying to do a "regulars" night and testing maps on Fridays around 9pm EST (GMT-5), though CLRs are welcome anytime.

[Grisu]

NVM. Strangely, my ut3 server list is very short... :(

Perhaps I have better luck next time.

[Slaughter]

Try setting Pure Server to Any and check both Show Full Servers and Show Empty Servers.

[Nomadicus]

Name: WAR-Primeval_SE
Version: PC version Release Candidate 1
Compatibility: UT3 with Patch V1.2
Description: Enhanced WAR-Primeval that Sanch3z and I released on New Years Day
Download: http://www.unrealmediaservices.net/ut3/maps/WAR-Primeval_SE-RC1.zip
Comments: This release has been tested on a server and is suitable for server play evaluation.
Feedback is always appreciated.

Link Setups:
Default - Classic Primeval as close to ONS style as possible
Alternate - Primeval updated UT3 style
Orb - Variation of Alternate
Linear - Variation of Alternate
Insanity - Five nodes with Darkwalkers

Screenshots:
http://www.unrealmediaservices.net/ut3/maps/WAR-Primeval_SE-RC1-map-pic1.jpg

http://www.unrealmediaservices.net/ut3/maps/WAR-Primeval_SE-RC1-map-pic2.jpg

http://www.zimagez.com/miniature/war-primevalse2.jpg (http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/war-primevalse2.php) http://www.zimagez.com/miniature/war-primevalse3.jpg (http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/war-primevalse3.php)

Brought to you by Sanch3z and Nomadicus!

Thanks to BuffyTheSlayer for the two Darkwalker screen shots.

Enjoy,
Nomadicus

[cross posted at Cain's Lair, Pinky's, Slaughters, T5K, ZeroFrag, and Epic Forums]

[Slaughter]

I've uploaded this release candidate to my server and to my redirect (all link setups available). All CLRs who remember the good times on UT2004 Primeval should check out the great work Nomadicus and Sanchez have done.

Server is at: 64.37.73.210

[Cain]

Ohhhh... Aaaaa.....

[Nomadicus]

Do I detect Cain perhaps giving Prime a whirl?!? :o

[Cain]

:twisted:

[KurlonT]

So when do we get to see Primeval with 64 players....:eek:

[Slaughter]

If Cain promises to show up, I'll set the server up for 64 players and only Primeval. :D

[Cain]

:twisted::twisted::twisted:

:o:o:o

UT3 does 64 players now !?!?!?!?

SWEET !!

[Slaughter]

:twisted::twisted::twisted:

:o:o:o

UT3 does 64 players now !?!?!?!?

SWEET !!

Yes, Epic did up the limit to 64 players in the last patch.

[SPECTRE]

I've been bored at my job lately, and am looking for a side project to do in my off time.

If this is the kind of thing that gets the "interest" back at Cain's....name a favorite ONS map and i'll work on a remake.

:2thumbs:

[KurlonT]

I've been bored at my job lately, and am looking for a side project to do in my off time.

If this is the kind of thing that gets the "interest" back at Cain's....name a favorite ONS map and i'll work on a remake.

:2thumbs:

Sure...remake of ONS-Adara would be cool for the PC/PS3.

[Slaughter]

We'll be testing this map tonight. Approx 9:00pm EST (GMT-5).

[Nomadicus]

Hey KurlonT. I have your response from yesterday at UT.PS3 (which is now gone).
This is what I have:
1. Linksetup selection works.
2. UI Mappicture didn't work.
3. North Manta Node heavy foliage boundry still causes major lag when going through them.
4. The necris cauldron causes major lag when next to it.
5. DarkWalker can climb on the cauldron then up the lower side of the middle tree boundry and fire at the blue base w/ primary weapon.
6. Trees and foliage directly in front of the red Orb Spawner causes some lag.
7. North Cauldron weapon locker glow effect still shows when approaching its location on the three node variants.
8. Trees blocking approach to the Manta Nodes (variants that do have this feature) causes major lag when passing by them.
9. You can get stuck behind a spot directly behind the necris cauldron on the red side.
10. Suggestion: Add some grasses to the base of the light poles.
11. Suggestion: Make the fallen tree logs (blue side) more angled towards the center node so you can use it for hoverboard jumps and mirror it on red side (I know it's a break from the original layout but that didn't have hoverboards).
12. Suggestion: Orb Spawner should be in the default Node layout for the PS3.
13. Suggestion: Replace the Manta with either a Scorpion or Scanvenger until the missing texture bug on the primary fire is fixed (for the PS3 version).
14. Suggestion: Make one of the 3 node variants spawn a Paladin at the center Node like the old ECE version.
15. Suggestion: Replace the Darkwalker with Paladin or Golaith until the missing texture bug on the gunner primary fire is fixed (for PS3 version).

1. Apparently I am the first person to get linksetup selection working for custom maps? I have a hard time believing no one else could do it. So all Warfare maps to date just have a the default linksetup? Maybe I should post a tutorial at Epic.

2. This requires the map to be frontend loaded. The UDN doc is sketchy at best. I'll take another stab at it in RC2. Know of anyone else that has it working?

[Nomadicus]

Anyone that wants to test the PS3 version of RC1 please do. I need the feedback. Thanks.

Here is the link to both versions:
http://www.unrealmediaservices.net/ut3/maps/WAR-Primeval_SE-RC1.zip
http://www.unrealmediaservices.net/ut3/maps/WAR-Primeval_SE-RC1_PS3.zip

[KurlonT]

1. Apparently I am the first person to get linksetup selection working for custom maps? I have a hard time believing no one else could do it. So all Warfare maps to date just have a the default linksetup? Maybe I should post a tutorial at Epic.

The usual method was to release the default setup as one userdata.jam file then do a necris version as another userdata.jam file. I've never seen both released under one file in any custom Warfare map cooked for the PS3. IMO as long as there's a orb and necris version most PS3 users will be happy with just that much since we have no option to d/l from the server.

BTW I'm sure a tutorial would help a ton for those cooking Warfare maps.

[Cain]

Yes, Epic did up the limit to 64 players in the last patch.

how does 64/64 play ???

[SPECTRE]

how does 64/64 play ???

If it was running on Cain's......it'd be like butter!


:D

[Slaughter]

how does 64/64 play ???
I have no idea. LOL. I'd suspect it's probably a bit buggy since it's a new "feature". We'd need a bunch of CLRs and other friends to test it out, but what the hell; I'm game.

Server specs:

Intel Xeon (Quad-Core) X5355 Clovertown 2.66GHz 2 x 4MB L2 Cache Socket 771
SUPERMICRO X7DVL-E-O Dual Socket 771 Intel 5000V ATX Server Motherboard
Crucial 1GB 240-Pin DDR2 FB-DIMM ECC Fully Buffered DDR2 667 (PC2 5300) Server Memory (x2)
Western Digital Raptor WD740ADFD 74GB 10,000 RPM 16MB Cache Serial ATA150 Hard Drive - (x2)
Windows Server 2003 w/SP2

[Kronos[X]]

how does 64/64 play ???

I have been playing on a 64p server for about month. I have never seen it get up to 64, but have played many matches with 50+. I would have to say 70% of the time it runs stable for me. It did however become very unplayable last weekend, and now i see only 5 maps running, bummer.

Its crazy insane fun. You think 32p on Primeval was nuts. Try 50+ on Sinkhole, or Tankcrossing.

[SPECTRE]

Sure...remake of ONS-Adara would be cool for the PC/PS3.

I should also mention that I don't have the time or skills (yet) to make custom content. I would use only stock models and textures. That map is loaded with custom rock meshes. It would be cool to play that one in UT3 though.\

Any other ideas?

:)

BTW....DLing Primeval for PC now. Looks Great!

[KurlonT]

I should also mention that I don't have the time or skills (yet) to make custom content. I would use only stock models and textures. That map is loaded with custom rock meshes. It would be cool to play that one in UT3 though.\

Any other ideas?


Would any of these work?

ONS-Urban = textures from WAR-Downtown + WAR-Market District
ONS-Island Hop = textures from WAR-Islander
ONS-Aridoom = textures from WAR-Onyx Coast

[Cain]

Based on what I have been told I can tell you that a Quad Core won't be able to run 64/64 smoothly, unless Epic has gone nuts and completely re-written all their code.

I'm told that the GSPs use single or Dual Core Xeons for the big games, like 64P Battlefield 2, they tell me the Quad Cores cannot handle a process that large using that much CPU, and from my experience running UT games back to 1999 they use more CPU than anything else on the Planet. I can only imagine trying to run a 64p UT game !!

You guys all remember I had to build that new cutting edge AMD server box and was one of the few who could run 32p ONS that was smooth 99% of the time.

I'm giving very serious consideration to building my first new server box in 4 years, and if I do it will be based on the new x5272 Dual Core Xeon, and I guarantee it can run 64/64 with this game smooth as buttah.....

Stay tuned guys, I wanna e-mail my buds at Epic and ask them about 64p UT3.....

---

Guys, what maps do the 64p servers run ???? And can you point me towards some servers running 64p games, or as close as you have seen ????

Thx !!!

-- Cain

[Cain]

;51128']I have been playing on a 64p server for about month. I have never seen it get up to 64, but have played many matches with 50+. I would have to say 70% of the time it runs stable for me. It did however become very unplayable last weekend, and now i see only 5 maps running, bummer.

Its crazy insane fun. You think 32p on Primeval was nuts. Try 50+ on Sinkhole, or Tankcrossing.

Oooooo.. aaaaaa......

OK that is getting mr REALLY interested now !!!

You guys know that for years I have been bandwidth limited by my local ISP, and for good reason, they don't charge me a dime.

The good news is that they have now more than quintupled their bandwidth, and as a result I'm giving serious consideration to building my first new server box in over 4 years.

If/when this happens I will almost definitely give 64p UT3 a good shot, that sounds like a blast !!!

What is the name and IP of that server with 50+ ??? I wanna check it out.

-- Cain

[Slaughter]

Based on what I have been told I can tell you that a Quad Core won't be able to run 64/64 smoothly, unless Epic has gone nuts and completely re-written all their code.

I'm told that the GSPs use single or Dual Core Xeons for the big games, like 64P Battlefield 2, they tell me the Quad Cores cannot handle a process that large using that much CPU, and from my experience running UT games back to 1999 they use more CPU than anything else on the Planet. I can only imagine trying to run a 64p UT game !!

You guys all remember I had to build that new cutting edge AMD server box and was one of the few who could run 32p ONS that was smooth 99% of the time.

I'm giving very serious consideration to building my first new server box in 4 years, and if I do it will be based on the new x5272 Dual Core Xeon, and I guarantee it can run 64/64 with this game smooth as buttah.....

Stay tuned guys, I wanna e-mail my buds at Epic and ask them about 64p UT3.....

---

Guys, what maps do the 64p servers run ???? And can you point me towards some servers running 64p games, or as close as you have seen ????

Thx !!!

-- Cain

Well, no offense, but I think the quad-core comments from Trinity is crap. When UT3 first came out I had 2 32 player WAR servers and a 24 player CTF server going full bore with no sweat. There are quad-core servers running 64p now. GSPs use Dual-core for one main reason: It's cheaper to put in 2 dual-cores than one quad-core.

I'd be more worried that my PC wouldn't be able to keep up more than the server.

[Cain]

Hey, no offense taken at all ...

I'm scratching my head over the Quad Core comments also.... I keep asking around, and would much prefer to get a new Quad Core because they are less expensive by Core, in fact 1/2 the cost.... the Dual cores are much more expensive.

Trinity tells me they simply cannot run a big 64player Ranked BF2 server with a Quad core, they can run it on a single core or Dual core, and I ran 64p unranked BF2 on a Single core Xeon, so I know that works. I'm not 100% convinced that the Dual cores really are more powerful for large processes, - yet I cannnot find anyone to explain the real differences between the Quad and Dual core, nor why the Dual Core XEON costs twice as much per core as a Quad does.

Trinity tells me all their new Servers are Quad core because they cost so much less, BTW.

Do you have any testing date or anything I can research on differences in the Dual and Quad Xeons ??

Let's take this discussion to PM, we are cluttering up this map thread ...

:D

[Slug{CLR}]

Is the server code threaded? If not, it makes sense without affinity set. There is overhead in running a single threaded process on more than one core. The switching between cores comes at a price. The bigger the stack that the cpu needs to push and pop everytime, the higher the price.

I know the client is multithreaded but don't know about the server. Likely BF2 was not since that came out a while back.

Multiple cores really only come into play if the running process is multithreaded. Easy enough to check really, if all cores are humming along at 100% then its multithreaded, if they are hovering around 50% (on a dual), then no go.

[Cain]

That makes sense Slug.

Also aren't Quad cores, just two dual cores cobbled together, and they still need to access the FSB , rather than all 4 cores talking directly ??

I seem to recall there is a penalty to a Quad core vs two Dual Cores....

I doubt the server code for UT3 is multi-threaded, and I'll guess that most GSPs don't want it to be anyway, so they can more easily restrict what CPUs each server instance it sits on. I can ask the Epic guys.

[Nomadicus]

That makes sense Slug. Slug is on the right track and the details go into the cache hit rates, etc.
I sent you a PM before reading this post on that topic with more details.

I doubt the server code for UT3 is multi-threaded, and I'll guess that most GSPs don't want it to be anyway, so they can more easily restrict what CPUs each server instance it sits on. I can ask the Epic guys.I am pretty sure it is multithreaded since my PC UT3 is. As slug said, thread/process cpu affinity is key. If it is implemented correctly, the GSP's will have full control over their performance needs. They will actually want this.

Also aren't Quad cores, just two dual cores cobbled together, and they still need to access the FSB , rather than all 4 cores talking directly ??The Intel quads are 2 dual cores cobbled together, but you'd be surprised how well their FSB works under most conditions. For my current Intel Quadcore, I know exactly under what conditions performance drops off. The new Penrons have the larger 12MB cache and I have one on order. Testing it and comparing it to my "old" quadcore will be interesting.

Given some more info, I can probably create a mathematical model of UT3 dedicated server performance (which I do professionally for a few hundred servers where I work).

Oh Geez Luise! I just remembered, I have legit free access to server modeling licenses (they cost a few thousand $ each) and can model *any* server configuration if I have the baseline metrics.

This could get interesting. Hmmmm . . . :D

[Nomadicus]

Release Candidate 2 is available.

Enjoy!

Here is the summary:

Name: WAR-Primeval_SE
Version: PC version Release Candidate 2
Compatibility: V1.2
Description: Enhanced WAR-Primeval (which Sanch3z and I released on New Years Day)
Comments: Feedback is always appreciated.
Improved PS3 frame rates based on most recent feedback.
Added sniper rifle which a player can obtain by using the teleporter located near each base.
Added two sniper's platforms located between each manta node and the center node; only available in Insanity and Linear.
Added Hover Board speed boost near each DarkWalker node.
Link Setups:
Default - Classic Primeval as close to ONS style as possible
Insanity - Five nodes with Darkwalkers
Alternate - Primeval updated UT3 style
Linear - variation of Alternate
Orb - variation of Alternate

Screenshots:
http://www.unrealmediaservices.net/ut3/maps/WAR-Primeval_SE-RC2-map-pic1.jpg

http://www.unrealmediaservices.net/ut3/maps/WAR-Primeval_SE-RC2-map-pic2.jpg

http://www.unrealmediaservices.net/ut3/maps/WAR-Primeval_SE-RC2-map-pic3.jpg

http://www.unrealmediaservices.net/ut3/maps/WAR-Primeval_SE-RC2-map-pic4.jpg

http://www.zimagez.com/miniature/war-primevalse2.jpg (http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/war-primevalse2.php) http://www.zimagez.com/miniature/war-primevalse3.jpg (http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/war-primevalse3.php)

Credits: Many thanks to T5K (http://www.t5k-clan.com/), Zerofrag (http://zerofrag.com/), Slaughter's Place (http://slaughtersplace.com/community/), Unreal Pinky (http://www.unrealpinky.com/), and Cain's Lair (http://www.cainslair.org/). Special thank you to the PS3 players that took the time to give me such excellent feedback. Your support is greatly appreciated.
Thanks to BuffyTheSlayer for the above Darkwalker screen shots.
Homepage: www.t5k-clan.com
Download:
WAR-Primeval_SE-RC2.zip (http://www.unrealmediaservices.net/ut3/maps/WAR-Primeval_SE-RC2.zip) (49MB)
WAR-Primeval_SE-RC2_PS3.zip (http://www.unrealmediaservices.net/ut3/maps/WAR-Primeval_SE-RC2_PS3.zip) (28MB)