Routers

[Kenshin Himura]

Can anyone suggest some great wired routers for gaming purposes? I'd rather not go wireless, as I've dealt with one in the past, and it was not a very pleasant experience.

I'm not too familiar with routers, so Tails and I have having trouble finding one that has a lot of bang for the buck. I know we've got a few routing/networking guys here, so I figured I'd get some advice from the experts. :D

Thanks.

[mapes]

For home use the belkins or netgears are great. I really haven't had a problem with em. I don't like linksys or dlink . I've had problems in the past with those although some folks on this list say they're ok.

[BenKenobi]

IDK I've got a linksys, and it hasn't broke for a very long time..... at least 4-5 years

[Kenshin Himura]

Is there anything specific I should be looking for? Tails and I are planning to use it to for gaming purposes, so we'd both we online at the same time. I know gaming can be quite demanding, so is there any specifics we should be checking?

Thanks. :D

[CarbonFire]

Well, there are "gaming" routers out there, though I'm not sure how well they work. Supposedly they push game packets through first, so it may improve your connection when having multiple people playing a game at the same time. Honestly, I think your connection to your ISP is going to make a bigger difference there, so I'm not sure it's all that worth it. Someone who owns one might know better though.

You could also get a Gigabit router, which will transfer files between your computers at 10X the speed of older, cheaper 10/100 routers that most people have. You have to have gigabit cards in your computers to take advantage of this though, and the older/cheaper the computer/motherboard, the less likely you are to have Gigabit built in.

Honestly, unless your needs stretch far beyond just general shared internet access and gaming, any typical router from a good manufacturer will do the trick. If you feel it's really necessary to get the absolute most out of your connection when both of you are playing games, then look at the "gaming" routers. Otherwise just get something like these:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16833127091
or
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16833124001
or
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16833105049

Of course, you could always get a wireless router and just use the wireless feature later on down the line, but those will cost you another $30+

[BenKenobi]

Ive got the second carb listed!

[Kenshin Himura]

Well, there are "gaming" routers out there, though I'm not sure how well they work. Supposedly they push game packets through first, so it may improve your connection when having multiple people playing a game at the same time. Honestly, I think your connection to your ISP is going to make a bigger difference there, so I'm not sure it's all that worth it. Someone who owns one might know better though.

You could also get a Gigabit router, which will transfer files between your computers at 10X the speed of older, cheaper 10/100 routers that most people have. You have to have gigabit cards in your computers to take advantage of this though, and the older/cheaper the computer/motherboard, the less likely you are to have Gigabit built in.

Honestly, unless your needs stretch far beyond just general shared internet access and gaming, any typical router from a good manufacturer will do the trick. If you feel it's really necessary to get the absolute most out of your connection when both of you are playing games, then look at the "gaming" routers. Otherwise just get something like these:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16833127091
or
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16833124001
or
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16833105049

Of course, you could always get a wireless router and just use the wireless feature later on down the line, but those will cost you another $30+
Thanks, that answered a lot of questions. :D

I wasn't sure if we were going to need something higher due to our needs, but as long as it'll hold the connection while we're both gaming, I have no real complaints.

Based on the reviews, I'd say the third choice (3com 3CR858-91) is looking best so far. After digging through multiple reviews on quite a few routers, this one seems to have consistent and excellent performance.

[{CLR}geneSW]

i've got a Linksys WRT54GS and I like it, it's wireless but I don't even notice it half the time when she is on because i'm set-up in a DMZ.

[Kenshin Himura]

My Dad used a Wireless router, and it seemed really convenient not having to worry about wiring and such, but it seemed to have a nasty habit of dropping connection. It wasn't all the time, but it seemed like it had some bad days pretty often. At first I thought it might have been because it was going through two walls, but I've heard a lot of people say that they do the same and have little to no trouble.

[TheSilentAssassin]

I have a Linksys WRTG54 router. Basic, simple to set up, cheap, effective, and provides a 128 Bit encryption. No problems to complain about, just the rare disconnect...my sister has too many computers on the internet at the same time

[mapes]

One thing to look at if your looking at wifi routers is if you have cordless phones they will make you lose connection if the phone use 2.4 ghz range.

[mapes]

I have a Linksys WRTG54 router. Basic, simple to set up, cheap, effective, and provides a 128 Bit encryption. No problems to complain about, just the rare disconnect...my sister has too many computers on the internet at the same time

Just out of curiosity when you say 128 bit encryption...in what way?

[{CLR}geneSW]

WEP 128 bit...

[mapes]

WEP 128 bit...


Ahh your right most likely I was thinking hmmm please clarify it could do SSL 128(HTTPS), IKE 128(VPN).

[CarbonFire]

Don't use WEP....its painfully easy to bypass. The key is transmitted with the packets it sends, so anyone can capture it and sneak onto your network. WPA, while not perfect either, at least gives you SOME protection.

Kenshin, also keep in mind that no router is perfect. They deal with a heavy amount of data on a regular basis, and no matter what happens, sometimes they won't perform as well as you'd hope. Also remember that just about every router out there needs a firmware update at one time or another. Especially, it seems, in the consumer space.

I posted that 3Com router there though because it did have a better rating than most, so take that with as large a grain of salt as you'd like :) That or the D-Link look like decent options. For the record, I've had problems with routers from just about every manufacturer, so I tend to look at these things on a case-by-case basis, not a "this brand is good, that one is not" approach.

[Trooper110]

Or you could use something along the lines of http://www.smoothwall.org/ It's a firewall as well as a router built in to one. Of course you need to have a third computer with at least 2 network interfaces for it to work completely.

[CarbonFire]

Or you could use something along the lines of http://www.smoothwall.org/ It's a firewall as well as a router built in to one. Of course you need to have a third computer with at least 2 network interfaces for it to work completely.

Almost all routers out there will have some sort of firewall functionality built in. While being able to run a third computer as a router is neat, its not too practical for Kenshin and Tails since they don't even have a second computer yet :twisted:

You know, the more I look at it, the more that 3Com router looks like its much better than the rest.

- Stateful packet inspection firewall with hacker pattern detection
- Virtual DMZ
- NAT/PAT (with TCP and UDP)

A router with these security features = a good thing :2thumbs:

[ThisElfRocksHard]

Don't poopoo the wireless routers just yet. They add a lot of future functionality. And, most have four wired ports for standard ethernet. This is one of the times I would have a feature and not use it than need a feature and not have it (unless cost is a major consideration, or you are concerned about no major headway in the "N" standard in recent months).

[mapes]

Or you could use something along the lines of http://www.smoothwall.org/ It's a firewall as well as a router built in to one. Of course you need to have a third computer with at least 2 network interfaces for it to work completely.

Almost all routers out there will have some sort of firewall functionality built in. While being able to run a third computer as a router is neat, its not too practical for Kenshin and Tails since they don't even have a second computer yet :twisted:

You know, the more I look at it, the more that 3Com router looks like its much better than the rest.

- Stateful packet inspection firewall with hacker pattern detection
- Virtual DMZ
- NAT/PAT (with TCP and UDP)

A router with these security features = a good thing :2thumbs:

Another thing to consider to about running a linux or other host based router is power. Small embeded routers consume much less power and if it freaks out you can just hit the reset button(I know you can boot off cd on some router distros but, whatever).

As for statefull firewall, NAT and a DMZ I bet all routers sold have those options considering they were high tech about 15 years ago.

One thing I would not worry about is VPN stuff. If your going to be connecting to a company VPN they generally provide you with a software client and also not all IPSec implementations inter operate easily.

WEP is not that easy to crack as you make out. Yes there are two modes of WEP shared key and WEP challenge response. Never use challenge response. As that mode is easy to crack. Basically the attacker just needs to XOR the challenge and response and they have the key. Shared key is much harder to crack. WEP initially got a bad rep because when the AP was setting up whats basically it's random number generator it was easy to predict some of those "random" numbers. Most implementations of WEP now deal with that major flaw. Yes it can still be cracked but, it requires an attacker to capture lots of traffic.

One thing that buy's you nothing is MAC locking. Don't even bother with that as it gets you nothing. In general as long as your running the companies lastest firmware you should be ok with wep.

I do agree Pre Shared Key WPA is much better although depending on how old your clients are some may not support it.

As for why I like Netgear and Belkins over Dlink and Linksys it's just a feel. The Dlinks and Linksys just over all feel like products that are not as polished. Do they work for the most part yeah.

last note about wifi if your using 802.11 B or G they operate in the 2.4 Ghz range which many other devices do as well. Like cordless phones and Bluetooth devices. You maynot have a cordless phone but, your neighbor might.

[th3st1ck]

I would go with Linksys, I have a number of their routers, and havent had a problem since

[imlittlev]

I have a Linksys WRTG54 router. Basic, simple to set up, cheap, effective, and provides a 128 Bit encryption. No problems to complain about, just the rare disconnect...my sister has too many computers on the internet at the same time
i also have the wrt54g, it works

[BigTwinky]

WRT54G here as well and it works great. Have had it for a few years and no real problems. Not sure on the technicality of it, as I'm not a tech guy, but hey, if it works, thats good enough for me hehe

[tupinambis]

I cant say enough good things about my DLINK. Its been nothing but pure gaming goodness since I got it.

[Devilguns]

I have the Dlink DGL4300, it's pricey but it rocks. They came out with a N version but that'll have to wait until after my new build.

[RobotBanana]

I'd recommend Linksys. Matter of fact, I have 3 Linksys products. I have 2 of the WRTs; one is running the normal firmware, and I have a custom firmware (OpenWRT) on the other, which is basically just a scaled-down linux machine. Complete with SSH access, package managers, etc. Then I have one of the extenders (WRE54G I believe?).

The signal strength in my house is complete garbage, no matter what router/brand I try. With all of the other wireless devices, neighbours with WiFi, etc., there's a lot of interference. I even have one of those phone sets that sync 3 handsets to one base station, all on the 2.4GHz spectrum.

So, get this...

On the top floor, I have the stock WRT connected to the modem. I have a laptop and my main PC wired to that. Then spread out along the rest of the floor is another very old (rarely used) laptop, another PC, a Wii, and a PS3, all connected wirelessly.

In the basement, I have another PC connected to the router with the custom firmware, which acts as a bridge. The PC is wired to that, which then connects to the other router and extender.

On the main floor, I have a wireless extender hidden in the corner to ensure that the link between the top floor and the basement is nice and strong. It also helps with reception outside.

An iPod Touch and a business laptop also connect wirelessly.

The fun part is they all have the same ESSID and keys, so you just configure one connection, and the strongest signal is usually the one you connect to. :D

So... As you can tell, I like Linksys. It manages to handle all of those connections without any trouble. The one running the custom firmware has lasted a few years already, and it doesn't look like it intends to die any time soon.

[Trooper110]

I've had issues with 2 WRT54G's. Kept dropping the connection totally and had to hard reboot to get them working again, so I stay clear of Linksys now. Have a Belkin router that's been chugging away for well over a year and haven't had an issue with it yet. Although I think Linksys's problem stem more from the firmware than hardware necessarily, put a custom Linux firmware on the WRT54G to play around with it and didn't get the same problems anymore (and it had Linksys's newest firmware, I made sure of that). Linksys seems to be hit and miss from all I've read and heard about.

[mapes]

I've had issues with 2 WRT54G's. Kept dropping the connection totally and had to hard reboot to get them working again, so I stay clear of Linksys now. Have a Belkin router that's been chugging away for well over a year and haven't had an issue with it yet. Although I think Linksys's problem stem more from the firmware than hardware necessarily, put a custom Linux firmware on the WRT54G to play around with it and didn't get the same problems anymore (and it had Linksys's newest firmware, I made sure of that). Linksys seems to be hit and miss from all I've read and heard about.

I've seen that at three or four friends houses. Tried everything to fix it, FW upgrade, factory reset replace cabling, Cleaning up the clients...etc.... Ended up buying a less cheap router to fix the prob.

[CarbonFire]

Yeah, that's why I go on a case-by-case basis when considering a router. Even different revisions of the same "model" can have vastly different performance. This can lead to some people strongly recommending a router, and others decrying the same router as crap.

Nothing is as cut and dry when it comes to networking as it looks on the surface. :wink:

Oh, and Mapes, yeah, you're right WEP isn't quite as bad as I made it out to be. It does provide some level of protection. Its just WPA is superior and provides better out-of-the-box security for the average user than WEP. So why not use it, as long as all your wireless products support it :)

[mapes]

Yeah, that's why I go on a case-by-case basis when considering a router. Even different revisions of the same "model" can have vastly different performance. This can lead to some people strongly recommending a router, and others decrying the same router as crap.

Nothing is as cut and dry when it comes to networking as it looks on the surface. :wink:

Oh, and Mapes, yeah, you're right WEP isn't quite as bad as I made it out to be. It does provide some level of protection. Its just WPA is superior and provides better out-of-the-box security for the average user than WEP. So why not use it, as long as all your wireless products support it :)

I agree with the WPA statement. I was just pointing out that you need a lot of traffic to crack wep and some clients don't support it is all.

As for my opinion of DLinkSys it's a perfectly valid opinion. My reasons for disliking them is because I feel they are an inferior product. Will they work for most applications sure. However it's worth the 20 dollar price diff to me to possible side step a possibility of issues and not waste my time on such things. You also must understand my opinion comes not from one install of aforementioned brands but, many. For six years I worked as a contracted network engineer for small and medium sized businesses installing among other things DSL routers. I also have experience in the development of networking gear having worked for the last 7 years as a QA engineer testing enterprise grade network equipment. To me the DlinkSys products seem to be made as cheaply as possible.