Power Supply

[TheSilentAssassin]

I want to upgrade my power supply on my Dell XPS 410, but I worry about finding a compatible PSU since I hear that it is hard to find these so I have a couple questions...

1. Does anyone know a store that I could go to that might have compatible PSUs for sale?
2. Dell uses a standard Intel Motherboard, would a new PSu cause problems?
3. Would increased power (from 375 w to preferably 600 w) cause a problem with anything in my computer...like CPU, GPU, RAM, Hard Drive, everything?
4. Is it hard to upgrade the PSU?
5. Would I have to worry about increased temperatures menaing replacing and adding new fans to keep the system cool?

The main reason I am asking these questions is that I want to get a 8800 series graphics card, but my computer does not give out enough power, so I would need a new PSU to get a new graphics card. Maybe even upgrade my CPU is I have enough money. I am wanting to just upgrade instead of buying a new system because buying a new system means a crap load of CREDIT CARD money which I do not have. My case itself has excellent ventallation and is built to remain cool which is why I am considering upgrades rather than a new computer.

Do you think it would be better to upgrade now, or wait to get a new system in maybe a year or so? Current system specs:

Dell XPS 410
Microsoft Windows XP Media Center 2005 SP2
Intel Core 2 Duo Processor E6400 (2.13 GHz, 1066FSB) with 2MB Cache rated at about 5.75 GHz
3GB DDR2 SDRAM at 667MHz
256MB Nvidia GeForce 7900GS
250GB SATA II Hard Drive (7200RPM)
16X DVD+R/RW CD-RW Combination Drive
Intergrated Audio
Logitech MX5000 Mouse and Keyboard Combo
Logitech X-230 2.1 Configuration Speakers System
Logitech Premium Notebook Headset w/mic
Linksys WRT54G Router
Samsung SyncMaster 170MP
375 w PSU (standard dell power supply unfortunately...)

[random_id]

1. Newegg? ZipZoomFly?
2. I doubt it - according to this article (which directly mentions your model):
http://www.anandtech.com/printarticle.aspx?i=2834 Dell is now using a standard PSU connectors so any standard PSU should work with the motherboard inside your Dell PC.
3. No
3. No
4. I doubt it - Dell cases usually have good ventilation.

And yea, you should always upgrade as soon as you have chance - you never know what might happen in the future (maybe teh world will cease to exist after several months or so :twisted: ), so try to enjoy your new upgraded hardware while you still can :D

[TheSilentAssassin]

1. Newegg? ZipZoomFly?
2. I doubt it - according to this article (which directly mentions your model):
http://www.anandtech.com/printarticle.aspx?i=2834 Dell is now using a standard PSU connectors so any standard PSU should work with the motherboard inside your Dell PC.
3. No
3. No
4. I doubt it - Dell cases usually have good ventilation.

And yea, you should always upgrade as soon as you have chance - you never know what might happen in the future (maybe teh world will cease to exist after several months or so :twisted: ), so try to enjoy your new upgraded hardware while you still can :D

Ya I agree, a top of the line state of the art computer can become outdated in about 6 months because new technology keeps advancing. Thanks for the input...KEEP IT COMING! :2thumbs:

[juneau]

1. Seemingly not. Your quite lucky.
2. Same here too.
3. It isn't all about Watts. AS 520W Corsair would be more than enough.
3. No, but in some cases you might have to remove the CPU cooler or motherboard to fit it.
4. No. And even if there is it will be negligible.

Your PC is fine. A 8800GT would be a massive boost.

[TheSilentAssassin]

Ok, I have been reading a lot of articles that are saying that upgrading the PSU really not necessary. They are saying that Dell tends to underate their PSU anyways...so like 375 Watts means continuous, and probably like 450-500 MAX or something like that. They often said that when the Dell XPS410 came out, they offered the 8800 GTX with the system (with the standard 375 W power supply). So i have been reconsidering even upgrading the PSU, and saving that money for the new graphics card...Thoughts? opinions? Thanks!! :2thumbs:

[Rand{CLR}]

Ignore the articles. A 8800 sucks down most of that 375 watts by itself when it's running full force. You need more power if you're going to upgrade to that model card.

I'm also pretty sure the 410 model would not have offered the 8800GTX as a default option. People may have been able to add it, but Dell's configurator probably wouldn't warn them that they needed more power with the card. The way Dell does their pc configs is that the XPS 700+ models are the gamer-centric ones, and those would offer the GTXs. The lower models (are you sure you don't mean Dimension 410?) wouldn't have as many options for high-end video cards.

-Rand

[Dead_And_Gone]

PSU wasn't all that expensive to me, considering what I have or WILL have hanging on it.

So I went to the
CORSAIR CMPSU-620HX ATX12V v2.2 and EPS12V 2.91 620W Power Supply

I know.. Overkill. I didn't want to be lacking in power when everything
was Zipping along. Zalmar CPU cooling fans reportedly take a lot of power
to keep going, and the 8800GTX, and the duel core CPU.
So, all in all, I decided to go over instead of conservative. :D

[juneau]

PSU wasn't all that expensive to me, considering what I have or WILL have hanging on it.

So I went to the
CORSAIR CMPSU-620HX ATX12V v2.2 and EPS12V 2.91 620W Power Supply

I know.. Overkill. I didn't want to be lacking in power when everything
was Zipping along. Zalmar CPU cooling fans reportedly take a lot of power
to keep going, and the 8800GTX, and the duel core CPU.
So, all in all, I decided to go over instead of conservative. :D

You could add another 8800GTX to that and still have juice to spare. :D

[Ghost_Rain]

You can not go wrong with CORSAIR CMPSU-620HX ATX12V v2.2 and EPS12V 2.91 620W Power Supply I got one for my son and It got a life time warrent with it and it well worth the money :2thumbs:

[drunken_chef]

there's a good article on this PC at Anandtech

http://www.anandtech.com/systems/showdoc.aspx?i=2834

it looks like the fastest video card they offered(at least at the time of the artcle) was a 7900 GTX. also, an aftermarket PSU shouldn't pose any problems with fit and plug compatability.

[TheSilentAssassin]

Ignore the articles. A 8800 sucks down most of that 375 watts by itself when it's running full force. You need more power if you're going to upgrade to that model card.

I'm also pretty sure the 410 model would not have offered the 8800GTX as a default option. People may have been able to add it, but Dell's configurator probably wouldn't warn them that they needed more power with the card. The way Dell does their pc configs is that the XPS 700+ models are the gamer-centric ones, and those would offer the GTXs. The lower models (are you sure you don't mean Dimension 410?) wouldn't have as many options for high-end video cards.

-Rand

No the XPS 410. I just don't want to have to go in and pay someone to replace it for me, but I do not want to do it, in fear of possible destroying my computer.

[random_id]

Ignore the articles. A 8800 sucks down most of that 375 watts by itself when it's running full force. You need more power if you're going to upgrade to that model card.

-Rand

I don't know what you're talking about but my whole system with a previous 8800 card (8800GTS, heavily overclocked) never consumed more than 250w of power at full load, at ANY game I've tried. That is an actual fact tested with a power consumption meter that I have.
And here's another test of a system (all of the components, not only video card) power consumption which used an actual power consumption tool to do the test (instead of using theoretical figures):
http://www.techreport.com/r.x/radeon-hd-2900xt/power-load.gif
Even with 8800Ultra and a Core 2 Extreme X6800 CPU, the full system's power consumption doesn't even reach 375w. So if Dell's PSU is able to provide most of its power output on 12v line or if Dell is actually underrating their total PSU output somehow, then yea, it's possible that the Dell's 375w PSU can properly power any single 8800-series card. Though personally I would still upgrade that PSU - first of all, it seems like the PSU's reach their highest efficiency (less energy lost as useless heat) at about half of their maximum load, second of all with new modular PSU's you can get better case ventilation by unplugging unnecessary power cables from PSU, plus it is useful to have a spare working PSU around "just in case" :D

[TheSilentAssassin]

Ignore the articles. A 8800 sucks down most of that 375 watts by itself when it's running full force. You need more power if you're going to upgrade to that model card.

-Rand

I don't know what you're talking about but my whole system with a previous 8800 card (8800GTS, heavily overclocked) never consumed more than 250w of power at full load, at ANY game I've tried. That is an actual fact tested with a power consumption meter that I have.
And here's another test of a system (all of the components, not only video card) power consumption which used an actual power consumption tool to do the test (instead of using theoretical figures):
http://www.techreport.com/r.x/radeon-hd-2900xt/power-load.gif
Even with 8800Ultra and a Core 2 Extreme X6800 CPU, the full system's power consumption doesn't even reach 375w. So if Dell's PSU is able to provide most of its power output on 12v line or if Dell is actually underrating their total PSU output somehow, then yea, it's possible that the Dell's 375w PSU can properly power any single 8800-series card. Though personally I would still upgrade that PSU - first of all, it seems like the PSU's reach their highest efficiency (less energy lost as useless heat) at about half of their maximum load, second of all with new modular PSU's you can get better case ventilation by unplugging unnecessary power cables from PSU, plus it is useful to have a spare working PSU around "just in case" :D

That is exactly what I thought...AAAHHHHH too many conflicting arguments :?

[{CLR}geneSW]

I'll put it simple for ya. Upgrade the PSU to something decent, a 550W corsair or Thermaltake would do nicely, if you can get a 600w that's all the better. I'll take screenshots of how to replace a PSU for you here in a bit, you'll see that it's really really easy.

[Rand{CLR}]

Ignore the articles. A 8800 sucks down most of that 375 watts by itself when it's running full force. You need more power if you're going to upgrade to that model card.

-Rand

I don't know what you're talking about but my whole system with a previous 8800 card (8800GTS, heavily overclocked) never consumed more than 250w of power at full load, at ANY game I've tried. That is an actual fact tested with a power consumption meter that I have.
And here's another test of a system (all of the components, not only video card) power consumption which used an actual power consumption tool to do the test (instead of using theoretical figures):

Maybe you just have a particularly eco-friendly system? An 8800GTS at load puts out about the 250 watts you mention with a mid-range e6600 or so chip at full load. I guess I should have clarified that the card plus the chip are most of the 375 watts--250 is most of 375. :wink:

That doesn't count whatever else he's got hooked into the power supply.

Kyler, hook up a lava lamp to it. :twisted:

-Rand

[random_id]

Ignore the articles. A 8800 sucks down most of that 375 watts by itself when it's running full force. You need more power if you're going to upgrade to that model card.

-Rand

I don't know what you're talking about but my whole system with a previous 8800 card (8800GTS, heavily overclocked) never consumed more than 250w of power at full load, at ANY game I've tried. That is an actual fact tested with a power consumption meter that I have.
And here's another test of a system (all of the components, not only video card) power consumption which used an actual power consumption tool to do the test (instead of using theoretical figures):

Maybe you just have a particularly eco-friendly system?
-Rand

Far from it :D I have an overclocked and over-volted AMD X2 CPU which idles at about 50C degrees even with an after-market cooler on it (I like quietness so I keep all teh fans at lowest RPM's) and I have a couple of power-hungry (which also get very warm) WD Raptor drives, plus the "usual" stuff like 4 GB's of RAM, the stand-alone (Audigy2) soundcard and stuff like this :D

[random_id]

That is exactly what I thought...AAAHHHHH too many conflicting arguments :?

Just get one of these:
http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/ProductDetail.jsp?ProductCode=373100
It's modular (good for case ventilation), uses all Japanese-made capacitors, has good warranty and will power ANY 8800-series card you'll ever want to use. Here's a review of this thing:
http://www.jonnyguru.com/review_details.php?id=28

And removing your old PSU is very easy - just unscrew 4 screws and disconnect all teh cables that go from PSU, then remove it from the case. Here's detailed instructions in case if you really need them (did you know that Dell provides instructions on how to remove/replace hardware for most of their systems?):
http://support2.jp.dell.com/docs/systems/xps410/en/SM_EN/parts.htm#wp1468921

[TheSilentAssassin]

So what have we agreed on? New power supply or not? If a new PSU, need one I could find IN STORES (best buy, frys, pc club, circut city, etc.) Thanks for all your help guys.

If I do get a new power supply, because I have absolutely no confidence in myself to open my computer and make changes in the insides, would you be willing to walk me through it once I get a new PSU (if that is what we have agreed on)?

-Kyle

[random_id]

I dunno what you have against online stores but I think Fry's should have Corsair PSU's... Same goes for PC Club. As for whether upgrade it or not - it is really up to you. I would upgrade for the reasons I've said before (in fact, that is what I did with my old 450w Enermax PSU even though it was perfectly working). As for upgrade process - it is really, REALLY easy, the connectors have a "fool-proof" shapes and you just have to remember what components you need to connect to your PSU (if you can't remember - use a digital camera or a pen+paper to draw a diagram :D ).

[Rand{CLR}]

I dunno what you have against online stores...

Don't forget that here at Cain's Lair, we have all ages and a wealth of backgrounds. Could be too young for a credit card (and family not willing to use), or just not willing to use one himself. Buying online is a bit rough without a CC. :wink:

-Rand

[WalkinTarget]

One thing to keep in mind here is that each PSU has a percentage rating of efficiency, with cheaper models offering up 70-72% and the higher end stuff reaching 80+% efficiency.
What that means is that a 500w PSU will run at that percentage of its rated output. It will not happily pump out 500 watts all day long to your PC. It will not deal with voltage irregularities, whether they be spikes or dips, when it is maxed out. That is why we as a group always recommend you buy more than what you expect to need.
If I convince you to 'cheap' it and get by on a Thermaltake 430w unit and in three months you start having oddball shutdowns ingame after an hour of gaming, we then need to examine whether that PSU is now a factor in those shutdowns. Regardless of whether it worked for 3+ months fine, you can not rule it out, as there are variables in a PC current load that over time can cause weird lockups.
If you were to buy a higher end model, I'd safely assume that the PSU is not a problem based on its higher performance rating and efficiency. So, back to my 500w PSU running at 75% ... it is now effectively a 375w PSU !! Do the math ... it is always a better decision to buy more than what you need to rule out any oddities.

If you do want to try the stock PSU, it won't overvolt the card and damage it. It just won't run it consistently. I would at least give it a try, but count on having some weird issues that can easily be attributed to a weak PSU by the time you are done testing it.

[TheSilentAssassin]

I dunno what you have against online stores...

Don't forget that here at Cain's Lair, we have all ages and a wealth of backgrounds. Could be too young for a credit card (and family not willing to use), or just not willing to use one himself. Buying online is a bit rough without a CC. :wink:

-Rand

you guessed right...don't have a credit card, and my Dad does not exactly like the idea of messing with my computer, especially after my last problem.

[BenKenobi]

Well since I'm a Fortron Source fanboy, I would suggest getting anything fortron (FSP group).

Anything here really:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&N=2010320058+50001919+1131414175&name=301+-+400W

[TheSilentAssassin]

I JUST REALIZED SOMETHING!?!?!?!

Dell, being the idiots they are, does not put a slot for a PSU power switch on their cases. This means that the PSUs that I have been looking at would not work, because there is no hole in the back of the case for the PSU switch. Suggestions...and it cannot be get a new computer, get a new case, or buy something online, because I do not have a credit card.

[Devilguns]

I think your probably looking at the PSU it self, not the back of the case. Dell doesn't put on off switches on their PSUs.

http://i.dell.com/images/global/products/xpsdt/xps410_view.jpg

[TheSilentAssassin]

I think your probably looking at the PSU it self, not the back of the case. Dell doesn't put on off switches on their PSUs.

http://i.dell.com/images/global/products/xpsdt/xps410_view.jpg

EXACTLY!!!!!

That is the problem, because the ones that I see in the store, have on and off switches on them, and there in no hole in the case for it.

[drunken_chef]

kyle, the ones you see in the store will fit perfectly. the spot that you plug your power cord into is the physical back of you PS. the metal with the vent holes comes out of your PC. did you read the link to Dells sight showing how to replace the PS, if not, you should.

[TheSilentAssassin]

kyle, the ones you see in the store will fit perfectly. the spot that you plug your power cord into is the physical back of you PS. the metal with the vent holes comes out of your PC. did you read the link to Dells sight showing how to replace the PS, if not, you should.

PC club man...PC club

[mapes]

I JUST REALIZED SOMETHING!?!?!?!

Dell, being the idiots they are, does not put a slot for a PSU power switch on their cases. This means that the PSUs that I have been looking at would not work, because there is no hole in the back of the case for the PSU switch. Suggestions...and it cannot be get a new computer, get a new case, or buy something online, because I do not have a credit card.

Ye olde redneck style.....cut a hole.

[TheSilentAssassin]

I JUST REALIZED SOMETHING!?!?!?!

Dell, being the idiots they are, does not put a slot for a PSU power switch on their cases. This means that the PSUs that I have been looking at would not work, because there is no hole in the back of the case for the PSU switch. Suggestions...and it cannot be get a new computer, get a new case, or buy something online, because I do not have a credit card.

Ye olde redneck style.....cut a hole.

figured out that the power supply is the back of the metal