some to blame for economy

[Skud]

http://www.time.com/time/specials/packages/article/0,28804,1877351_1877350,00.html

a very short list, but it provides a starting point for the mess the world's in.

[Hammy]

Angelo Mozilo - 25 People to Blame for the Financial Crisis - TIME (http://www.time.com/time/specials/packages/article/0,28804,1877351_1877350,00.html)

This is pretty much the most accurate blame list I have ever seen, Except Phil Gramm should be number one, not number two. While Angelo Mozilo played his part, the fact is that people like Phil were chirping about lending to the worst credit classes and imposing threat of penalty from federal banking if they did not create credit and loan packages for ALL people.

After that he went on a tear for bank deregulation, allowing banking institutions too much lateral investing power, which thinned the stability of the marketplace for average people like you and I- in other words, the investments by banks was our money we invested into the banks.

[Hammy]

http://www.time.com/time/specials/packages/article/0,28804,1877351_1877350,00.html

a very short list, but it provides a starting point for the mess the world's in.

I just posted the same thing- sorry:cry:

[Minerva]

almost all men :twisted:

[Skud]

I just posted the same thing- sorry:cry:

My bad...we must have done it at about the same time.

[Skud]

That's my post!!! :wink:

[Duke{CLR}]

That's funny they seem to have left out Barney frank and Chris Dodd.

[Skud]

almost all men :twisted:

I didn't notice that one! I'm sure they just wanted to (or were pressured to) buy nice things for their wives, girlfriends, mistresses...

[Rand{CLR}]

I'm just really freaked out by the big head-small body style they went with. *shudder*

-Rand

[Skud]

That's funny they seem to have left out Barney frank and Chris Dodd.

They were 26 and 27, Duke. :D

[Duke{CLR}]

they Were 26 And 27, Duke. :d

Ok :d

[Hammy]

the point here is that George Bush, as I have seen my little liberal elite claim, is not the issue, and all these problems go back to 1998

[RyeWhiskey]

Don't forget about the sky-rocketing gas prices guys. That precipitated the crash of our economy in a big way. When gas prices tripled it cut in half people's expendable dough by 3 times. That isn't pocket change when you consider what bills you have to pay and are maxed out already and have to get to work still.

That was the case for alot of people.

[Hammy]

Im confused though, in 1998 who was the President who approved of bank deregulation....:scratch:

[Skud]

Im confused though, in 1998 who was the President who approved of bank deregulation....:scratch:

And Republican Gramm (number 2 on list) lead the charge...http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/17/business/economy/17gramm.html?pagewanted=1&_r=1

Point is: they're all crooks. I try to remain impartial, find the closest point to the truth. I would almost bet that (much) greater than 50 percent of the folks on this list are Republicans...but that is not why I posted this. I posted it so us folks who are getting shat upon by the ruling class can at least put faces to their misery. People have to wake up someday, neither party is on our side...it's all about profits and power for those suckas. :wave2:

[Apache Warrior]

Point is: they're all crooks. I try to remain impartial, find the closest point to the truth.
I am the same way. All of you who argue the straight party line seem to blame all of the ills on the other party and never on your own. I blame both sides for our past and current messes. The elected officials are supposed to work together and find a compromise that will work. Instead all I find is that most of them have a me me me attitude and if they do not get things their way will take their football and go home. The only thing worse than a crooked powermad politician is a crooked powermad politician who also acts like a spoiled child. This is a bipartisan rant and is meant to include both parties. :soapbox: :pissed: :D
Apache

[BlackArrow]

The U.S. economy is enormously complicated. Screwing it up takes a great deal of cooperation.






Here is the most accurate list I have found. I have also included the link to FactCheck.org, the Annenberg Foundation's wonderful site for such things.

Here's a partial list of those alleged to be at fault:

* The Federal Reserve, which slashed interest rates after the dot-com bubble burst, making credit cheap.

* Home buyers, who took advantage of easy credit to bid up the prices of homes excessively.

* Congress, which continues to support a mortgage tax deduction that gives consumers a tax incentive to buy more expensive houses.

* Real estate agents, most of whom work for the sellers rather than the buyers and who earned higher commissions from selling more expensive homes.

* The Clinton administration, which pushed for less stringent credit and downpayment requirements for working- and middle-class families.

* Mortgage brokers, who offered less-credit-worthy home buyers subprime, adjustable rate loans with low initial payments, but exploding interest rates.

* Former Federal Reserve chairman Alan Greenspan, who in 2004, near the peak of the housing bubble, encouraged Americans to take out adjustable rate mortgages.

* Wall Street firms, who paid too little attention to the quality of the risky loans that they bundled into Mortgage Backed Securities (MBS), and issued bonds using those securities as collateral.

* The Bush administration, which failed to provide needed government oversight of the increasingly dicey mortgage-backed securities market.

* An obscure accounting rule called mark-to-market, which can have the paradoxical result of making assets be worth less on paper than they are in reality during times of panic.

* Collective delusion, or a belief on the part of all parties that home prices would keep rising forever, no matter how high or how fast they had already gone up.


FactCheck.org: Who Caused the Economic Crisis? (http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/who_caused_the_economic_crisis.html)

[Apache Warrior]

Bingo, BA wins the prize for getting it correct.
Apache

[Skud]

Apache Warrior and BlackArrow...for looking at this mess without rose colored glasses.

[paceman]

Apache Warrior and BlackArrow...for looking at this mess without rose colored glasses.
:twisted:

[Hammy]

Actually-

If you look at BA's list it actually merges with the Time list

[mapes]

the point here is that George Bush, as I have seen my little liberal elite claim, is not the issue, and all these problems go back to 1998


It is true the root of these problems go back to Clinton. Certainly though you have to see the point that not doing a damn thing about it for the next eight years is almost as culpable.

[mapes]

Yeah I agree with BA as well. Although I think the term is cognitive dissonance.

[RyeWhiskey]

I honestly just want you all to pay my mortgage payment on my house I CAN afford, while I bank the rest of the money. I mean, if we are going to help people out who, yes it will happen, couldn't afford their house in the first place then why can't I get money for buying a small one I could afford.

This whole using people's money to pay for others is just getting ridiculous. Pretty soon, monopoly money will be usable for more than just a board game.

[DougBob]

I honestly just want you all to pay my mortgage payment on my house I CAN afford, while I bank the rest of the money.

LOL, amen brother, I got some stocking up to do :2thumbs:

[Dead...Again]

Yeah that is what pisses me off about the whole thing. Basically they are rewarding people for buying houses they couldn't afford to begin with. People like me and you who buy what they can actually afford get zilch...

[mapes]

Not true a good majority of this plan is aimed at people whose houses are now underwater. Meaning they owe more on the house then they can get for it. If you got an adjustable rate mortgage than payments will go up and those folks are screwed. They didn't have to be game players to get into this situation

Look I have a fixed year 30. I played by the rules. I doesn't help me at all if houses start going in foreclosure. It will just drive the property values down. Do I like it....not really Do we have a choice.... no

I don't want to hear about it anymore lets just do it and get on with it.

[Duke{CLR}]

This whole housing thing started with big government getting involved in the first place by trying to make lending "Fair". Now the people who made bad choices are being rewarded and those of us who made good choices are being punished. This is how liberalism works you try to create equality by spreading the misery around.

[BlackArrow]

I would take Duke's point one step further:

The government wanted loans made to people the private sector would not lend to = subprime.

Instead of doing it themselves directly, which is the role of government = to help that portion of society which falls below the line of the private sector, the government forced, coerced and bribed the banking sector to make these loans.

With these loans now having problems, they have basically taken down the rest of the banking system with them.

And the politicians (don't care demo or republican) are yelling at the bankers about how irresponsible they are......:scratch::pissed:

If the government had made the loans directly in the first place they would be able to restructure them, lower interest rates unilaterally and although the tax payer would have lost some money, it would have been nothing near the damage they have caused to the whole system.:roll:


The fact that Greenspan kept interest rates so low so long just fueled the fire and encourage further abuses like more affluent people getting in over their head in debt or buying house they couldn't afford.

So instead of just dealing with the subprimes.......now the irresponsible more affluent get to go along for the debt forgiveness ride.......

[mapes]

I would argue the point that the loan servicers we're completely in it for themselves. There are documented cases where people had qualified for low income HUD loans but, because the servicers get a bigger commission on sub prime loans they aggressively pushed those loans instead of doing HUD loans.

Loan officers also were aggressive in pushing type r loans as well. Type R loans are designed to help you get past a rough spot. You basically have a low payment for a few years and then it triples. The idea being that once you get some equity in your place you refi. The problem is now that alot of these folks with type r loans have they're houses underwater. It is impossible to refi when you have negative equity and now the payments are about to explode.

My idea ....A while back everyone was talking about a bad bank that would take all of the toxic assets off the banks. Basically because the banks are so large we can't let em fail. On top of that the loans have been securitised so the banks don't even hold all of the loan if any. So basically we have

Folks with loans they can't pay serviced by banks who have sold em to large funds. Which means the owners of the funds do not want to renegotiate the loans.

The two pressures I see are the fund owners and the foreclosures.

Instead of a bad bank...why not a good bank. Take all of that tarp money and setup a government bank. Refi the struggling homeowners loans/renegotiate those loans with the fund owners and let the big banks fail. Let there be a new beginning in banking. Right now the banks can get so big we cannot let them fail. So we keep propping them up no matter what. Lets clear the slate and allow new banks to form...

Ok it won't work but, whatever I was just rambling