More stimulus stuff

[Duke{CLR}]

Obama adviser: White males need not apply (http://www.worldnetdaily.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=86827)

This is why the government programs fail every time. These extra things that limit what can be done with our money make theses programs less efficient and ineffective.

[Skud]

That is sick...the endangered species act. Of course, being a stinking white male, I've gotten used to being the last person to get a chance at a grant, a scholarship, etc. Oh well, I just keep doing my job and paying my bills/taxes.

[Duke{CLR}]

If this is supposed to be our infastructure I would want the best people building it up.

[mapes]

Wait whats the problem here? Are you more offend he said white or are you more offend he said 20% should be used as a combination infrastructure /social aid?

You see the fastest way to get money into the economy is to use government programs for poor people. It's a simple fact that poor people by they're very definition spend all the money they get.......

Hence his comment. What he didn't say but, the headline did is that government wouldn't hire whites.........

Way to overract

[Skud]

If this is supposed to be our infastructure I would want the best people building it up.

Hey, hire the most reliable, most productive workers, regardless of race or sex. There is welfare still for the rest. :(

[mapes]

Hey, hire the most reliable, most productive workers, regardless of race or sex. There is welfare still for the rest. :(

You mean to tell me we'll only hire the best ditch diggers.... come on

[Hammy]

I'd like to know who said this and ask Obama to reflect on the "white" comment.

I dont know what you all have experienced, but I have actually built infrastructure around the country from 1995 through 2001, and I never saw a "white out" construction crew unless we were in Chicago (no offense to anyone- but it was a fact).

And legally, you cannot define a "social return" if you are suggesting that it need be awarded on the basis of race, sex, age, and etc.

I think this is not accurate information and I sincerely dont think Obama's administration is doing this. It would be pretty difficult to pull off.

[Skud]

You mean to tell me we'll only hire the best ditch diggers.... come on

So everyone in the construction industry is a "ditch digger"? That's a pretty strong stereotype.

The thing I have a problem with is awarding or denying employment on the basis of race...not on merit. If a private company stated this as their mission, there would be lawsuits and legal action, less likely in this direction, but still possible. I don't think that I overreact when I say this is a foolish/offensive idea. I felt a similar disgust when the previous administration awarded multi-billion dollar no bid contracts to companies like Halliburton/KBR, some of which were not completed or were done poorly...and yet they still got their money for them. I also wasn't fond of a horse trader being put in charge of FEMA...didn't work so well. Also felt revulsion at the bailout of the bankers....

In this case, this article, let's say there is a guy who's been working construction (you know, a ditch digger) for 15 years. He lost his job last year during the housing/economic slump. Obama's stimulus comes into play, and he is passed up for a non-white with no experience for the job...simply because of his race and the "social good" that will come from this, as the quote in the article suggests is the best course for the money. The new guy does the job, it takes twice as long with the unexperienced laborer (thus spending more tax dollars in a time of crisis [for all]) and the cost of another guy is needed for his training as well; and the guy with the experience, who didn't get hired and possibly already paid 40 times more in taxes, social security, etc. in his career...well, he eats it. Time passes, the government job ends, and now you have two unemployed "ditch diggers", one willing to work for half the cost, possibly...or maybe he didn't last through the contract. Blah, blah, blah.

The point is, hiring should not be done on anything but qualifications. If you want to do "make work", then do it in unskilled areas if there aren't enough skilled positions available, and do it for everyone, regardless of race/sex, as must be done in an "equal" society. This said, I know that there are a lot of experienced construction workers in all races, who should be hired before the inexperienced workers. I am not suggesting that all would be white. I just, once again, want the most qualified workers on the job, regardless of race.

I voted for Obama because I thought he was the more qualified person of the two. I never cared about his race (even let the Jeremiah Wright [and the other guy, even worse] stuff slide), and thought, for those who do see race in every problem, he could serve as a shining example of the fact that if you work hard you can do anything in this country, even become president...no more excuses, no more blame...no different than anyone else.

[RyeWhiskey]

I voted for Obama because I thought he was the more qualified person of the two

This is why you voted for him?. With barely a four year position, I find this statement hard to believe.

The real reason people voted for him was because of the media portrayal and the 'change' and 'hope' hysteria that that shrouded his smooth talking and ability to play to all sides. That and money buys happiness. Then the 'hope' that things could change.

LMAO, with more and more govenrmet 'hand-outs' paid for by the few for the other few, we are turning into a socialistic state. We'll see, but his stimulus plan, and goals it encompasses shows what's going on. Maybe he'll buck the stereotype and look out for all of mankind. I highly doubt it.

You know I think it's about 600,000 thousand jobs of the 3,000,000 jobs he wants to create are for 'public service'. ??? More jobs for us to be taxed to pay? How is that beneficial? That might be outdated now.

[Skud]

This is why you voted for him?. With barely a four year position, I find this statement hard to believe

Yup. I've seen how beneficial tax cuts and corporate welfare have been for the past eight years...and the war. Also I am a Teamster...it would be silly for me to vote for someone who would take pleasure in busting unions. Is it so crazy to vote for the most qualified person? the one who uses logic in their arguments? The one with whom one agrees more than half of the time?

I tend to side a little more with the right on guns and welfare, but that is about where it ends. I still believe in science (global warming/evolution), birth control for population control ("just say no" doesn't seem to work), education spending for keeping America competitive, diplomacy, some government regulations, etc. So I vote dem. If there were a moderate party, I'd probably vote there. In the meantime, well, I'll vote for the most qualified, most intelligent candidate.

If Obama creates 600,000 jobs, it is 600,000 more than we have now. If they were going to spend the money on social programs anyway, it might as well be something that improves roads, power grids, schools...which have been deteriorating steadily for the past decade. As I've said, the tax cuts aren't stimulating the economy, and neither is the trillion spent in Iraq. We'll see what happens. I'm not sure any plan will show results...most likely that the hemmoraging companies will eventually die...time and effort might be the only things that change the situation.

Anyway, I've always said I'll criticize even the guy I vote for when they do stupid things. I am no sycophant. So I criticized him (or his staff) here for putting a certain interest group ahead of others. Favoritism makes only the favored happy. I'll leave it at that.

[Hammy]

The thing I have a problem with is awarding or denying employment on the basis of race...not on merit. If a private company stated this as their mission, there would be lawsuits and legal action, less likely in this direction, but still possible.

Not to be picky but not really- Private organizations can do as they like including the declaration of inclusion so long as said inclusion is consistent. The only thing they would not qualify for would be certain Tax benefits and they wouldnt be able to work on any Gov Contracts (state or fed). Nor would they be able to work with any company that is part of any Gov programs that reward diversity. That is the only reason why Private Organizations do not institute these things, they reduce ther customer base by 2/3 in construction services. The reality is that there are many companies out there that operat this way, but do not codify it so they arent held to the standard and continue to qualify.

RE: The Stimulus Package- How much help can $500 bring? Seriously. $500 is a great deal of money, but many people have not been conditioned to be frugal.

Prove a point? There was a moment in time when my wife and I were flat broke. I took over everything that required money, and I bought bargain hamburger, chicken drumsitcks, biggest bag of white rice I could find, frozen bags of greenbeans and bulk boxes of Macaroni and cheese. I bought peanut butter and jelly at bulk, and the only thing we bought that was expensive was Milk, Eggs, and Juice. Bread was bought rather cheaply too.
For 4 months we ate nothing but macaroni and cheese with string beans and burger mixed in or Chicken and rice + green beans. I reduced our food expenses by like 75% this way, and I fed my family well for that entire period. I think I was spending about $100 a month in groceries. Most people dont or cant do this because they dont manage themselves well.

To prove that point: I have seen my Step-Sister go broke and continue to buy like nothing had changed. Same with other people close to us. I also saw friends, family and people on the news, take their stimulus package check and buy a PS3, a Plasma TV, and etc.-- so much for the necessities in life.

So - what will the Stimulus Package change again?:scratch:




And by the way, I never thought that anyone in this thread suggested anyone should hire only white- my point was that it was in Chicago that I saw completely white crews on high rise projects, which is ironic given that other races get pretty good benefits in Chicago. The Union strength in Chicago is so big and corrupt that they tell companies which projects will be worked on, only local Unions are allowed on projects, and if not, the majority beyond 50% must be local Union.



Stimulus package is a waste of money. Take a WWII or Depression stance, create 500,000 government jobs to repair infrastructure and feed the people. Stop handing out money- its only feeding the poor decisions people have already made.

[Duke{CLR}]

Wait whats the problem here? Are you more offend he said white or are you more offend he said 20% should be used as a combination infrastructure /social aid?

You see the fastest way to get money into the economy is to use government programs for poor people. It's a simple fact that poor people by they're very definition spend all the money they get.......

Hence his comment. What he didn't say but, the headline did is that government wouldn't hire whites.........

Way to overract

I'm not offended I'm just pointing out why these programs don't work. Liberals like to put rules in there that make the money spent a waste. It's this kind of sentiment that brought us Sallie Mae and Freddie mac. I also believe this money will not all be spent right away so I would argue that it's the fastest way to get money into the economy.

I just don't understand why people feel the need to turn to government for their lives. The only people who get rich off these programs are the politicians and the poor seem to content to take the scraps that are left over. :|

[mapes]

I guess I see a different view. Maybe this is not the best way to alleviate poverty but, Hear me out.

I get fairly fed up when people make out all poor folks to be nothing more than government leeches. I know there is some however I know folks..... They had to fight they're way outta there. I know of one person who was a runaway because of sexual abuse. She end up on the streets at 14 years old turning tricks. Due to social programs and her strength of will she got out of the worst drugs, got her stuff together and was working at the evil empire M$ (maybe not anymore though). If not for socail programs she would still be in a bad spot. Overall though any amount of money spent on her ended up being paid back through her taxes.

I would like to see poor folks who have the drive and will to change their lives helped. It only helps us all out with a larger middle class...

I honestly have no idea what is the best way to sort the wheat from the chaff.......

my off topic stance...

[Hammy]

Stimulus package is a waste of money. Take a WWII or Depression stance, create 500,000 government jobs to repair infrastructure and feed the people. Stop handing out money- its only feeding the poor decisions people have already made.

And the day after I say this:

Poor infrastructure fails America, civil engineers report - CNN.com (http://www.cnn.com/2009/US/01/28/infrastructure.report.card/index.html)

Honestly- I said this with no insight that this report was coming, but this is my suspicion- our next major problem, even if the economy rights itself, is the aging infrastructure and lack of public projects.